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Comment by d--b | Hacker News Reader

This always reminds me of some dudes in France who decided to counter attack the scammers. They basically steer the conversation off-script to something more tempting to the scammers, and then make them do stupid things. Like "I am sorry there is nothing I can do for you, but while you're here, we're looking for some partnership to develop a new NGO in Benin". And then it turns out the NGO is called the "Sauerkraut brotherhood", and in order to get the funds, you need to join the brotherhood, and send videos of you and your family singing an anthem praising sauerkraut while being dressed up in "traditional clothes". These threads could go for months.

http://didoune.fr/blog/2012/03/08/les-croque-escrocs-et-la-c...

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I did this with some 419 scammers, and led them on a merry chase. I documented it in a private web forum, which entertained my friends for weeks.

I had created this persona which was just too good to be true: A bank manager who was getting ready to run off with his mistress, and trying to secure a future for themselves with a quick payout. This fake persona was a total maniac.

At the end, the scammers were super pissed. Sending angry emails, fighting amongst themselves. Eventually convinced them to admit to being scammers. I look back fondly on the experience.

Some years ago I was selling an expensive aquarium on Craigslist, a scammer ‘paid’ me with a fake PayPal payment before asking to come pick it up.

So I convinced him that I was the manager of a Red Lobster restaurant and it was an old lobster tank that we were selling. I told him to show up during business hours and tell the manager he’s there to pick up the lobster tank.

The next day I got some ‘on my way’ texts and then soon after a bunch of swearing at me.

Good times.

Actual scammers tend to not pick up the actual goods.

It's hard to turn a profit by reselling an expensive aquarium tank that's probably pretty unique and they don't come up for sale frequently.

I suspect you fleeced a real buyer

A real buyer would have made a real payment.

With paypal, finding out what is a 'real payment' is actually pretty hard - they do these odd 'echeque' payments which are reversible for a number of days. they also do 'buying a product' payments which can be reversed through a buyer-usually-wins process, and 'friends and family' payments which are mostly-but-not-entirely irreversible.

They all come with differently styled legit emails, which blend right in to the fake spam emails also claiming to be from paypal.

I can totally imagine confusion occurring.

Or the "buyer" crafted their own PayPal email.

That scheme does not make any sense. What would they gain out of it

Yeah, I bet he’s thinking of the other way around where the scammer gets you to give them money but doesn’t deliver the product. In this version you deliver the product and the scammer hasn’t paid. I don’t think scamming people out of aquariums is especially lucrative but I’m not a professional.

How did you know the PayPal payment was fake? Was it an edited screenshot, or did they actually spoof a 'you received money' email from PayPal?

I ask just on the off-chance that you got a seeming-real email from the real PayPal, and I'd like to know what to look for if so.

It was a fake ‘you received money’ email.

I believe this scam works by then reversing (withdrawal) of the PayPal funds.

Thanks. So I guess they send the money with the "goods and services" type instead of "friends and family" ? I wonder if that's (very) visible in the 'you received a payment' email. I never looked before.

>I did this with some 419 scammers, and led them on a merry chase. I documented it in a private web forum, which entertained my friends for weeks.

It's a bit dated now, but 419eater[0] is a public forum that did the same. If you enjoyed your own, I expect you'll like this too.

I did the same a few times myself, but got bored after a while. I never did get anyone to send a photo of themselves with underwear on their head (as others on 419eater did), but it was amusing for a while.

[0] https://www.419eater.com/

419eater is still going (albeit a little slower since the forums switched), no need for past tense. I still get that sort of scam by the boatload to my email.

Possible they're the same story?

I have no connection to that site. Indeed, I was aware of it before my merry chase I led the scammers on, which was 2008 when I did it. It was certainly an inspiration.

My private forum is long dead, and to be completely honest, I think the 419eaters did a much better job. That is subjective, but for sure they invested a lot more time in it.

I would post my exploits publicly, lightly anonymized, but I was in my 20's when I did it. I look back at it, and feel like the sort of long-con thinking and sheer sneakiness and meanness of how I reversed the con back at them is just not a good look. I wouldn't do it again now.

Maybe some folks understand what I mean by that? I don't want to be a shady dude, even in pursuit of some weird form of justice.

>Possible they're the same story?

Sure it's possible. Although GP said[0] it was a private forum.

419eater.com is, and has been for many years, an open forum.

Perhaps GP could clarify?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31952752

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