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Comment by tristor | Hacker News Reader

I have a pretty serious audio setup for WFH. I assessed throat mics and bone conduction headphones and IEMs, I then ultimately decided against these options and instead went for a front-address microphone on a boom and open circumaural headphones.

In my testing, all of these technologies intended for stealth (primarily) were uncomfortable for long periods of wear/use, and traditional options were massively more comfortable. I wear headphones all day, for instance, as I listen to music when I’m not in meetings.

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I love bone conduction headphone. I am currently using the Aftershokz Opencomm. The good thing is that they don't obstruct your ears, and you maintain full awareness of the outside world. Great when you are on the streets.

If that't not what you want, and when you are working from home, it is usually the case, then bone conduction headphones are not for you. When working from home, I am using a more traditional headset (Sennheiser Game One), which has much better sound quality.

For the microphone, I use the built-in headset mic, which is acceptable but not great. Best result I have heard on the receiving end is with a dynamic microphone, namely the Shure SM58, which is by far the most popular microphone for live vocals.

Static mics are great in a studio, but most people don't have studios. Dynamic mics do a great job at rejecting background noise, that's why they are so popular in live performances, and that's why they are also great in a noisy room. One logical constraint that goes with it is that you need to put it very close to your mouth, if you are doing video calls, you can't have it out of the frame, you will look like a rock singer ;)

I suggest the Aftershokz Opencomm for anyone who wants to hear what’s going on in the home (parents hearing children, adults hearing pets, etc.).

Also for anyone in an office who doesn’t want to put headphones on/off or in/out to interact with present people interspersed with remote people.

The all day “nothing on or in your ears” aspect is comfortable and healthy too.

For what it's worth I have bone conduction headphones (Aftershokz Aeropex) and I find them very comfortable to wear for long periods (a few hours at a time; I have never used them for a full day), more so than other types of headphones.

They don't cover my ears at all, so obviously they are only good in situations where I don't want to block out sounds from the environment. I tend to use them on a low volume, partly also because when I use them I don't want to block out other sounds, and partly because I don't like loud music most of the time. Within those parameters, I'm very happy with them.

YMMV

I've used these, and have two comments. High-ish volumes and high-ish bass result in bouncing on your head. And the microphones absolutely suck.

Yes. I have a fairly serious setup too, and chose something similar.

There are tons of different mic options which are designed for different applications--lavalier mics, headset mics, shotgun mics, omni mics, throat mics, boundary mics, and ordinary cardioid mics.

An ordinary cardioid mic is cheap, durable, and gives high-quality audio for one person. It's hard to beat. If you're trying to hide the microphone so it's less visible on-camera, you end up spending more money for worse audio.

The humble headset microphone is also a good option--a bit more utilitarian.

I tend to agree with you in the main - I use MDR-7506's and a sE Dynacaster as my normal setup - but you absolutely can get comfortable IEMs. But they really aren't cheap. If I need to do something that looks "cans free" at my desk I keep a set of Shure SE215s, which aren't super comfortable but they're tolerable for an hour or two.

To me, reasonably affordable throat mics sound terrible, which is a big factor.

I've worn Shure SE215s for 4+ hours at a time countless times for professional broadcasts. I found them to be very comfortable, and actually do use them at home for conferencing. It's definitely a personal preference thing, although I'm sure the more expensive ones are even more comfortable.

Yeah I'm sure SE215s are comfortable for some people. None of the canal plugs are comfortable for me past like an hour. The only canalphones I've ever had that I enjoy wearing are AirPod Pros, though - every other set of in-ear phones I've ever had has been of the "rest in the outer ear" variety like the PMX 684i's.

I've thought about getting some Ultimate Ears custom-fits, but it's a lot of money for something I probably won't like wearing.

How do these IEMs with their passive seal compare to active noise cancelling headphones for the purposes of unwanted noise attenuation

Passive IEMs are better, ANC is always weaker and more selective. I was once using Etymotic IEM and frantically searched for the source of a loud wind noise that hit my ears upon removing the earphones, only to realize it's just an air conditioner on the ceiling. That don't happen with ANC headphones, partly due to technology and partly for product safety concerns.

Have you compared passive IEMs to Apple's noise cancelling headphones? I compared Apple's products to properly inserted earplugs and Apple's ANC was better for low to medium frequency sound, so I wonder how you arrived at the opposite conclusion when it comes to IEMs

With properly inserted hardcore isolating earphones, and with music playing at low volume(important), I just don’t notice any other sound. Including landline ringing. Perhaps fire alarms too. It’s an auditory anesthesia. Like if I’ve put on a VR goggle, but for my ears.

And that is natural, after all it’s 40dB advertised isolation with ~15dB? sound on top. There’s no way those ANC earphones with small drivers powered from a toothpick batteries and thin rubber cap sealing the ear canal can beat that.

I also have a SONY WF-1000X, and an SE215 for that matter, both with Comply tips. They are nice, but no match against proper Etymotic dead silence.

I trust you, I'd like to delve a bit deeper into why this is the outcome to understand it better.

I hear people sometimes use Etymotics with Comply tips. Wouldn't that create the same seal as using WF-1000X with Comply tips?

Also do you have a recommendation of an Etymotic IEM model plus a tip I can try for maximum effect

ANC earphones are not designed with maximum sealing in mind(sometimes intentionally). Doesn't matter how plug and ear canal is tightly fit together, if what is suspended in the middle was a pipe with open ends.

ER4SR is the most classic/standard Etymotic model currently sold, other models complementing in both direction of prices. Perhaps more important than tip selection is correct insertion, or Practice and patience, which is unbelievably the exact wording used in their instruction manuals at least for my ER-6i. It is definitely not the healthiest earphones in the market.

What do you think of IEM silicon tips that are custom made for your ears, in order to improve the passive noise blocking? Unnecessary?

Pretty good, I use Shure IEMs to block wind noise on motorcycle rides and having access to podcasts/audiobooks are a nice bonus when slogging down freeways. I can still hear car engines and sirens, but it removes the wind buffeting in my helmet that really drains you (and damages your hearing) on a long ride.

Better, in my experience. They can get around 25-30db reduction across the spectrum, and they don't let voices (i.e. non-repetitive noises) through like ANC can.

Combine them - I often wear earplugs plus a pair of bose nc700s. They have better noise canceling for your conditioner noise compared to my airpod Max's

They are definitely better. ANC can't beat physically blocking the soundwaves from hitting your eardrums.

Is this based on your experience having tried both? Because that reasoning is questionable. IEMs don't block all sound from hitting your eardrum, some of that sound will hit your eardrum via bone conduction. And ANC headphones do block some sound passively, the inner ear ANCs can often create an airtight seal.

Yes, I have tried both. However the only ANC I have experience with is AirPods Pro, so that's all I have to go on. But I can definitely say that IEMs do a better job than the AirPods.

Which IEM and tip did you get? Do you know why the IEM was better given that the Airpods Pro also plugs the canal?

Shure SE215 and the default tip it comes with. I can only speculate on why the IEM is better, but I suspect it comes down to the tip material creating a better, more substantial seal. The outer shell is also physically larger, and that may also play a role in keeping more sound out.

I wonder if we can replace the tip on the Airpods Pro to create and IEM like seal. I suppose that should be the best of both worlds? But the outer shell would still be smaller so maybe not.

Comply foam tips make all IEMs all-day wearable in my experience. It's surprising how much of a difference in comfort they can make.

I haven't tried that brand, but I agree that foam tips do help. Still not comfortable for me though. I'm picky about headphones in general--I literally can't wear closed-back headphones for too long before I get uncomfortable. Not physically, but it's something about the isolation effect that makes my skin crawl.

Ear protection in the wood shop doesn't give me the same vibe, but I'm also not listening to anything through it.

The headphones thing is very much a matter of morphology and personal preference. I know for instance anything other than IEMs is intolerable over any significant period of time for myself.

And choice of headphone! Open versus closed headphones lie much different on your head; clamp strength and weight vary hugely as well. I'm on my third set of AKG k702s as the only headphones I can wear for hours; finding the right pair for anyone takes time.

The most comfortable headphones I have are my open ear Hifiman He-400i. Minimal clamping pressure, and they’re more breathable due to being open backed. I can wear them for hours without issue. The downside is that they only work if you can get away with open backed headphones. They’re useless if sound leak is an issue or if you’re on an airplane or something. But for working at home in my office by myself they’re ideal. And they sound way better than anything else I’ve tried.

This is true. I had a leg up when I chose my setup, because I've been active in the headphone hi-fi community for a few decades and had a collection of various cans and some knowledge of what I was looking for. My WFH setup uses Beyerdynamic DT880s, which are generally known for being comfortable with low clamping pressure, minimal weight, and because they are open tend to not cause ear sweat as bad as some other options.

Obviously, YMMV

Absolutely. I'm a fan of the SteelSeries Arctis 5, but the wireless version (Arctis 7) has too much clamp strength to be comfortable for me. Sony's WH-1000XM4 is a good wireless option on the go, but because it uses bluetooth it murders the quality of incoming audio if you use the mic.

It's a series of tradeoffs, and finding a headphone that is right for you and your situation is far from trivial.

> Sony's WH-1000XM4 is a good wireless option on the go, but because it uses bluetooth it murders the quality of incoming audio if you use the mic.

In my experience they work well if you only connect it to a single device, but if you use the two device mode then the mic is useless.

I use my Sennheiser PC38X for every work and personal call/conference I do. They have an excellent mic and great sound. I'd use them for music daily if I didn't WFH and have excellent speakers and even better headphones for just music.

https://drop.com/buy/drop-epos-pc38x-gaming-headset

A good wired microphone absolutely destroys the sound quality from bluetooth headsets.

I have a prior version of the same headphones. Very pleased with them.

I have, however, moved to a Jabra bluetooth. The wireless freedom is top-notch.

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