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Comment by killdozer | Hacker News Reader

> like we approach discussions around kubernetes

I've already deployed my CloudNative Political Belief System in a fault-tolerant EKS cluster with a fully implemented CI/CD pipeline.

> Yes i wish people would stop being so emotional about their rights being stripped from them

On a more serious note, I appreciate this sarcasm as my wife and I were devastated about this news because of how we feel it impacts us (we're done with having kids and the idea of getting pregnant again due to the rare chance of contraceptive failure is pretty scary for us). I feel like I am pretty sympathetic to the intention behind being both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" and this decision to overturn Roe vs Wade still made me feel very upset.

As this sarcastic comment eludes to, I am sure that others are far more devastated by this (imagine if you were a pregnant person planning on getting an abortion in Texas right now). I definitely have been re-evaluating my lack of sensitivity when I have asked or expected others to be level-headed when something infringes on what they feel is important. It has been a paradigm shift for me to feel so impacted by this -- and I'm not even a woman. My reaction to Roe vs Wade being overturned has definitely has highlighted my privilege in my life.

I'm not saying the parent comment of asking for less emotion in politics is being insensitive -- I just have always held a similar perspective of "less emotion in politics would be better for everyone" and for me I think it was often coming from a place of privilege.

An appeal to fewer emotions in politics can sometimes come from a place of privilege, but I'm coming to realize that it's still USEFUL.

I'm also in an odd, semi-orthogonal situation: I'm a homosexual female of child-bearing age, so while I may be impacted by this, it's far less likely than for other women and the situation would always be one of those tricky exceptions (plus, since most women are raped by men they know... if you know me and you rape me without murdering me, you're an idiot, and dead women don't get pregnant).

The issue with things being too emotional isn't that the emotions are bad or that people don't need support. They absolutely do. The issue is that if we ONLY focus on emotions and keep ourselves in panicked, fight-or-flight mode for all of our waking hours that we can't plan or strategize effectively. Deciding what to DO to make change requires a little emotional distance.

I think it's possible to both acknowledge the devastation people are feeling while also thinking it's counter-productive to ONLY have that conversation.

> I think it's possible to both acknowledge the devastation people are feeling while also thinking it's counter-productive to ONLY have that conversation.

Very good point -- I completely agree. From my place of privilege (again, not saying this about anyone else) I think I often considered emotion to be completely useless and to just set it aside. Thank you for the reminder that both emotion and logical thinking should be acknowledged.

> since most women are raped by men

One of the things that blows my mind about many pro-life arguments is how little responsibility is placed on men if they impregnate a woman. Women literally can't get pregnant without a man and yet the fixation surrounding abortion is on controlling the woman's body. And when this is acknowledged, it is accompanied by unreal ideas around stopping all rape completely. Idk, it seems to me like banning abortion is treating a symptom rather than the root of why unwanted pregnancies occur (i.e. lack of sex education, dysfunctional family/societal dynamics, etc.)

> Very good point -- I completely agree. From my place of privilege (again, not saying this about anyone else) I think I often considered emotion to be completely useless and to just set it aside. Thank you for the reminder that both emotion and logical thinking should be acknowledged.

Same hat, which is why I bring it up: If it can help somebody else figure this out before their 30s, it's good. In particular, emotions are great to help figure out priorities and set direction: If you don't feel anything, it's really hard to decide what you want to do with your life, for example.

> banning abortion is treating a symptom rather than the root of why unwanted pregnancies occur (i.e. lack of sex education, dysfunctional family/societal dynamics, etc.)

I mean, it is. Banning abortion is basically the only thing all pro-lifers agree on. To address the root of unwanted pregnancies, we'd all have to agree on the causes AND that unwanted pregnancies are the main concern. (For a certain percentage of pro-lifers it's more about discouraging non-reproductive sex than about preventing the death of the fetus).

As someone who had a surprise (but most welcome) pregnancy at 40, many years after an ectopic one, I’m coming to grips with the fact that my home state’s government, and possibly a large percentage of its residents including most of my close relatives, are ok with me dying if I have another ectopic and happen to be visiting when things get critical.

“But there are exceptions for the life of the mother, and an ectopic surely is that!”

How many women won’t seek medical help when the pain and bleeding start because they think it might be a “normal” miscarriage and are scared of being investigated for inducing an abortion?

I have the privilege of a German residence permit and a healthy bank account that would normally mean I could hop on a flight to my chosen home the next day to get medical assistance without fear, but in the age of Covid, that assumption has been overturned as well.

i think that will be the major test to strike down any ban law that does not have triage protected. it's a tough one cause both physical and mental conditions need to be considered and thus will have different medical opinions of which politicians opinions should play no part.

And in the meantime, women will die of causes we’ve been easily treating in developed countries for decades, because they’re scared of seeking assistance, or medical professionals are hesitant to get involved in something that could result in criminal charges.

I think the point is it's counterproductive when people run with their emotions. E.g. interrupting some local Catholic mass may feel like a good vent, but it hardens people against you even further and drives reactions at the polls which is the only thing that matters.

Emotions are feelings. You don't have control of them but you do have control over your actions and your speech. If we agree that policies should be rational, then we agree that emotions are non-productive here. The human rights you are talking about are not fundamental in any way, they are contrived. If the state does not protect human life, then nobody will. The issue is not as simple as you've made it out to be.

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