Comment by s__s | Hacker News Reader

Comment by s__s | Hacker News Reader

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> I never want to breathe in cigarette smoke on the sidewalk because of the damage to my health.

I’m always a little shocked when I hear otherwise very intelligent people make these sorts of statements about second hand smoke.

The second hand smoke you’d encounter on a sidewalk is completely harmless. Any affect, if any, to your health would be completely insignificant and unmeasurable.

Second hand smoke is harmful when exposed to heavy amounts of it in confined spaces for prolonged periods of time. Think decades not seconds.

In fact that was the original justification for indoor bans. It was in defence of staff who may encounter health issues after being exposed to indoor second hand smoke for 8 hours a day over decades. (Think single mom working at a bar) They weren’t put in place to preserve the health of customers, since any affect would be extremely minimal and voluntary.

I should try to dig this up some time but I recall reading once about one of the lead promoters of the first indoor smoking bans in NYC. He later had to step down out of principal, when things pivoted to outdoor bans. In his mind it would be completely irrational and unscientific.

Air pollution is definitely a significant problem but cigarette smoke is nothing more than a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. Look in to brake pad dust.

> The second hand smoke you’d encounter on a sidewalk is completely harmless. A

Fine, I don't want to smell it because I find the smell gross. Same concept.

It’s not clear to me what you mean when you say it’s the same concept.

Your position is based on your own subjective preference rather than any objective fact.

We’ve gone from “your actions are having a direct negative impact on my health”, to “I’m not particularly fond of what you’re doing.”

Far from being the same, your position is actually very different conceptually.

The personal preferences of some aren’t valid reasons to ban things in public places for all. In most cases that would be a gross violation of human rights.

In my city the vast majority have a strong preference against pan handling. But it’s been made clear time and time again the pans handlers have every right to sit in public and ask for money, whether people like it or not. Moreover if they like they can also smoke a cigarette or bang a drum.

Sure, but in general we don't ban products because they smell gross. I can buy a durian fruit, or put rotten eggs in a dumpster, or be homeless and unable to bathe and that's not illegal on its own.

There's a lot of stuff that's gross and obnoxious that isn't banned by the FTC or FDA.

I find a lot of body odor or perfume and how heavily it is applied just as offensive, but I don't think people should be told to change because of that.

This is getting ridiculous imo.

I‘m sure some people find your breath and/or your body odor/perfume gross.

So should they be able to force you to wear a mask or keep a distance of say at least 6ft at all times?

Then farting outside should be illegal

This is one of the few joys I have left in life, don't take this from me.

Don’t worry, I will defend your right to dealt it to death

>> same concept

Completely different concept.

That's personal preference vs. a potential health hazard.

Great example - masks. You may have had a personal preference not to wear a mask during the height of the pandemic, but that 'personal preference' puts others at a proven health hazard.

In this case, your 'personal preference' is irrelevant.

If second hand outdoor smoke really did have the affects you initially used to back up your point, then that would be a 'health hazard', and therefore important to the greater whole, and something to be considered taking legal action on.

Since you reduced your argument to 'I don't want to smell it', the underlying concept completely changes, and your statement is completely irrelevant.

I don't want homeless people sleeping on the bench cuz it feels gross

I change a couple of words and suddenly your reasoning sounds absurd.

Frankly I don’t care if it’s harmless, get that shit the fuck out of my face. It’s like someone deciding it’s okay to just let a massive fart out next to you. Harmless, but is it really appropriate? No.

> The second hand smoke you’d encounter on a sidewalk is completely harmless. Any affect, if any, to your health would be completely insignificant and unmeasurable.

This sounds correct to me but keep in mind marketing the dangers of second hand smoke was an effective way to get people who thought of it as a solitary activity to thing of the secondary impacts. Most smokers don’t care about their long term health enough, but they may care about the health of those around them.

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