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Comment by bee_rider | Hacker News Reader

I don't really know economics, but I believe they are quite different -- cryptocurrencies value is 100% speculative. Tulips at least have an inherent value as a decorative object. Even fiat currency can be used as toiletpaper in a pinch.

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> Even fiat currency can be used as toiletpaper in a pinch

Even as origami sculptures, like the Venezuelan bolivar:

https://www.vozdeamerica.com/a/figuras-de-origami-hechas-con...

That 4 meter long cobra origami figure looks so cool (check picture 4).

Damn, that’s some astounding modular origami work.

> Even fiat currency can be used as toiletpaper in a pinch.

Hmm - but actually can it? Isn't destruction of bills forbidden? It certainly is in my home country.

Technically you are right, but I think it would have to be a really widespread issue before the government tried to do anything about it.

Given how many hands your average bill has passed through, that sounds extremely unhygienic. I'd rather use a tulip!

I think it's difficult to call something 100% speculative or 100% not. Some individuals may buy something for speculation, while others may desire the utility. You can speculate on the price of soy beans (many do), but people also buy soy beans to use.

There are individuals who get some utility out of bitcoin (international money transfers etc.)

> There are individuals who get some utility out of bitcoin (international money transfers etc.)

What do you mean with money transfers?

I mean that when I've asked people what utility they get out of blockchain they mention the ability to send BTC overseas quickly and easily, to countries in which it's difficult to send money. I assume they're not lying about that use case.

In practice transferwise (now wise) is able to transfer money more easily and with much lower fees. At least if your needs match normal consumer needs.

This switches if you need to transfer millions of dollars, or you're trying to pay for something illegal. Which is why one of Bitcoin's significant real-world uses is for ransomware. It does indeed make it easy to launder millions of dollars of money across national boundaries.

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/10/1004874311/how-bitcoin-has-fu...

In practice there are things such as country-wide sanctions that make "regular" services not particularly reliable in some cases.

So the utility of crypto is to violate sanctions?

Among other things, sure. Given how many of them are in place for no good reason (e.g. Cuba) while significantly hindering quality of life for innocent people, I consider that a net positive.

The utility of crypto is to transact without restrictions yes.

They send nothing as BTC is not located anywhere. They buy and sell btc with fiat currencies, that is all.

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