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Comment by 4wsn | Hacker News Reader

Not to derail from your main point, but how does Musk's public conduct play into your reason for selling your Tesla? I'm not a fan of the man but that shouldn't really be a factor in whether or not I use a product he's involved in.

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> I'm not a fan of the man but that shouldn't really be a factor in whether or not I use a product he's involved in.

No one likes giving money to assholes. And to be fair, he is doing a pretty good job at revealing himself as one.

Little late for that if you already bought it.

>he is doing a pretty good job at revealing himself as one.

this looks like it's referring to recent actions. in my opinion, musks actions in the past year (including the past week or so) have been far, far more acceptable than those in the past decade

I assume the parent comments then also doesn't order at Amazon.

of course they don't apply this logic to other businesses, because the vast majority of large company CEOs are probably assholes or do tasteless rich people things - it's sort of a requirement for the job. people have the equivalent of trump derangement syndrome but for elon.

Say I do. We all are hypocrites in some degree, does that mean my opinion on Musk is not valid?

My problem with Musk is who he is getting politically aligned with, for several very close reasons.

He has made a number of false claims about the capabilities of his cars. In my case, these claims influenced my decision, not only to purchase the car, but to pay for expensive options. Although it’s a great car, I feel like Tesla (Elon) over promised and under delivered. The idea that I was scammed out of $6000 for FSD pisses me off every time I get into the car to the point where I’ve considered selling it. That’s not a great reason to sell a car, but at least I won’t have a daily reminder of the time I was stupid sitting out in my garage.

In addition, Tesla has dropped a feature from autopilot, without making any mention of it in the sales process or manuals. This happened before with the voice recognition operation falling out of sync with the manuals.

However, the AP, formerly, in less advanced cars, allowed the car to change lanes with a simple operation of the turn signal -- all the while, maintaining position in the new lane, and adjusting for traffic aware cruise control. Now, the '22 model S, at least, you are forced to deactivate autopilot with a lane change. I'm now starting to think that there is no specification for autopilot, and every model year it will operate differently (worse) than prior model years.

If it's any compensation all self driving car companies are staffed by liars. Big ones. Of the AI variety, which deserves a special genus all its own.

> I'm not a fan of the man but that shouldn't really be a factor in whether or not I use a product he's involved in.

Everyone else is disagreeing with you, but I'll take a different tack:

Why shouldn't his behavior be a factor?

Because he may be the face most associated with Tesla but he doesn't provide strategy for the company, and doesn't really have a ton of input on operations, and 110,000 other people work there.

Tesla didn't seem to have a problem with Musk's public image when it was lifting their stock price into the stratosphere.

> Because he may be the face most associated with Tesla but he doesn't provide strategy for the company, and doesn't really have a ton of input on operations, and 110,000 other people work there.

CEOs set company strategy and drive execution.

> Because he may be the face most associated with Tesla but he doesn't provide strategy for the company, and doesn't really have a ton of input on operations, and 110,000 other people work there.

Mr. Musk is the largest individual shareholder.

Unfortunately, when people see you own a Tesla, they assume you are a fan of Musk.

I'm not, but that doesn't change what they think.

I have plenty of other reasons to get rid of the car anyway. This one is just a bonus.

> Unfortunately, when people see you own a Tesla, they assume you are a fan of Musk.

I see. Musk being an asshole attracts assholes who act like assholes towards you for your choice of car. I have to admit that would also be a factor in me wanting to sell a Tesla if I owned one.

Tesla is a public company. The board could fire him if they wanted and might if he further escalates his trolling.

That's might be very difficult. Musk may not own a majority but the corporate bylaws require a supermajority of shareholders to support any major changes, though I'm not sure if firing the CEO is covered by that. If it does, it would require roughly 75-80% of non-Musk shares to vote him out.

His cult of personality is one of the reasons for Tesla's valuation. Remove him, and you have a crash.

Strange that this did not happen when a) Steve Jobs first left Apple; and b) after Tim Cook succeeded him.

CEOs loose their mojo. When Elon fails to follow-through with taking Tesla private, and (seemingly) acquiring Twitter -- its a sign that he isn't thoroughly thinking through the weightiest of decisions.

When Jobs was ousted Apple was floundering an his departure was more drama than impactful. When he stepped down at the end he had a well running machine that could generally point in the right direction.

> Not to derail from your main point, but how does Musk's public conduct play into your reason for selling your Tesla?

Luxury items function significantly and social signals. Associate the brands with things potential buyers don't want to be associated with, and those buyers won't want to buy (or display) them. Tesla has benefitted from Musk’s image when it was less partisanly political and more “To Mars!”; his recent shift may shift where the brand has appeal.

It’s already doing so according to a recent poll [1].

[1] https://www.axios.com/2022/05/26/brands-politics-axios-harri...

Some people feel uncomfortable funding people whose antics they don't care for.

If someone is an unhinged asshole on personal time, I'm not inclined to trust the long term success of their business.

I also wouldn't want to be funding a future political play by Musk by buying a Tesla now.

He cannot become president as he was not born in the US. However, he could perhaps become governor of Texas. Might even be an improvement.

I think people having problems with Twitter comments instead of questionable corporate dealings are mostly extremely ignorant. People have a different opinion on who the asshole is in the end. I don't really believe people care much about antics or if they do they just want shallow massage to their own ego.

I believe there have been problems at Tesla and Musk was known to sometimes lose himself against his employees. Didn't seem to interest anyone and they still bought the cars.

For a company that can become a problem too when customers are seen as assholes.

People have moral compasses and don't want to give money to companies he's involved in.

I mean businesses are an undeniable source of political power in a democratic capitalist system. There is lobbying, influence over the media (see Bezos) etc. The choice of where you buy has an effect that is not totally unlike voting.

Welcome to the culture war?

Boycotts and buycotts are nothing new.

Does the consumer that passes on Tesla because of Musk look much further than their twitter feed when evaluating the alternatives? How does the impact of one person's social media behavior weigh against the conduct and impact of mega corporations making decisions about large scale industrial production and energy consumption?

According to Tesla (and SpaceX) fans, Musk is the company. He not only makes strategic decisions, but is also involved in day to day engineering development. The valuation of the company is driven by Musk's social media behavior; certainly, there's no rational economic reason.

One person's impact is the reason for Tesla, no?

by "According to Tesla (and SpaceX) fans" you mean some random tweet I read one time?

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