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Comment by novok | Hacker News Reader

Vegan's take their moral stance / religion and then try to push it as a health thing with biased reasoning, which can lead to general negative human health consequences as it percolates through via policy.

Predators exist, and humans whether we like it or not are scavenger omnivorous predators. There aren't vegan bears or indigenous vegan human tribes for a reason.

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Humans have a choice and the ability to consider and reason about morality. It doesn't matter what we technically are, because we have a choice in what we eat and how we treat animals.

Vegan bears and native tribes are irrelevant, you live in a modern world/society and both are poor attempts at deflection that don't hold up under even the slightest scrutiny.

Even if you refuse to consider the argument for veganism, the way we treat the animals we eat is an abject horror, modern animal farming is indefensible.

I have a 145 kg bench press with 17 inch biceps. How about you?

Apart from selfishly loving the taste of meat, convenience of nutrition for sport (ie getting 200g protein on 2500 cals or less) is really the only justification I have for meat consumption.

Any suggested reading for someone like me?

A Plea for the Animals, Eating Animals, or Animal Liberation

I’d start with Eating Animals. The author started the book to explore how his food ends up on his plate, but the book becomes about his gradual transition to veganism as he learns about animal agriculture.

A Plea for the Animals should be the second one. Written by a neurologist/monk who eloquently makes the argument that there is nothing in our biology which justifies subjugating animal.

Then Animal Liberation if you’re looking for a classic. It’s older, a bit more esoteric, but decent.

I’d suggest looking at some plant based diet athletes like Kylie Irving and see what he’s doing. I’m not going to lie or pretend that egg whites have a 1:1 equivalent in vegan nutrition but I would suggest taking a cold hard look at your performance requirements if you are competing on a professional level and if it really is all that necessary to squeeze that extra 3% performance edge or whatever it may be by eating meat or dairy. Maybe check out some vegan fitness youtubers or watch The Game Changers to get started. I’m weightlifting and running and I feel better and stronger as a vegan.

Thank you

Do you really need 200g protein at 2500 calories? Those numbers seem off to me, 200g protein is what a big guy trying to gain a lot of muscle might eat to make absolutely sure he's getting enough, but 2500 calories is what a big guy would eat to maintain or even lose weight. Everyone is different, but you might need either less protein or more calories than you think you do.

If 200/2500 really is the goal then I'm not sure you can do it without meat, or at least without lots of protein powder supplements. The highest protein/calorie ratio for normal food I can think of is from soy milk or lentils, which are both roughly the same at around 1g/protein per 11-13 calories, and you'd have to eat those exclusively.

well assessed, 200/2500 are my cutting targets

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