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Comment by greggman3 | Hacker News Reader

I have a friend what has a company with ~20 employees. During COVID they all went WFH. After 12 months or so they announced they'd stay WFH forever and closed the office. 9 months later the president and office manager got new office. They realized they were more productive together than separated, more productive at a dedicated work space than at home with all the distractions, family, kids. They were also happier to be together, to spend time with their "work friends", etc... They have not asked the employees to come back to the office but several are of their own accord, finding their life better than being at home all the time alone or with just the people in their houses, rather than having a larger extended set of people to hang out with.

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This mirrors my work experience over the years somewhat. I had a pretty unique experience as a college student when I was permitted to take one of the company’s HP 720 workstations with me two states away and work remotely. I used dial up and kermit to transfer files. It was very exciting at first. I did engineering up at campus, worked at home, consuming all of tiny toons and animaniacs while I worked on nuclear fuel design software. I missed the team though. I missed having someone to bounce ideas off of spontaneously. And to be in the know of what was going on. I was glad to “go to work” when I got done with school.

In my next job, it started out as a tight team of software in a larger company. It grew and then we bought our biggest competitor (we called it an acquisition; they called it a merger). Over time what was left of that staff shrunk and became remote. So we had a core group that was collocated, and then a group of remotes. The power dynamics were odd and competitive. The remotes wanted to be kept in the loop. The locals resented the extra process and protocol that had to be observed to keep the remotes in the loop. The locals also resented that the remotes got to just code, and didn’t have to deal with the interruptions that come with product managers that stop by with questions.

I was so excited when my next job was all remote, everyone. My kids were aged 3-11, and had a lot of school activities I wanted to support. We were in the “trench years” of four kids. At first, I loved the flexibility. It was great. After six years, I hated it (I’m not sure how much of this was remote vs feeling betrayed that the company was dysfunctional). I hated that I felt like I worked half time all the time. I could step out of work any little minute. But every little minute, work was only an “open up the laptop in the office” away. It was like being an on call dad and an on call worker simultaneously 100% of the time. And it seemed like a large portion of the team was basically freeloading on the gravy train. There were a core of us that could not help neatly figure out how 40ish hours at home work amounted to so little produced results.

When I got a job at a local company, I was so thrilled to go back in to work and work as part of a cohort. I have a lot of flexibility/autonomy here, so some days I stay at home and work because I’m in the groove and want to focus. But more times than not, I find I’m drawn back into the office/lab to work. There’s a lot gadgets I work with that it just wouldn’t make sense to duplicate for just me and warehouse at home. Our company has seen an uptick in can’t-do-without-em upper level staff who are now working remote. I find I often resent them.

> I hated that I felt like I worked half time all the time. I could step out of work any little minute. But every little minute, work was only an “open up the laptop in the office” away. It was like being an on call dad and an on call worker simultaneously 100% of the time.

This describes my current situation 100%. It feels both my duties at home and in the office are exaggerating themselves because I am seemingly available to both of them all the time. This is surely in large part my fault, but I struggle with finding solutions to this that don't create stress for my family.

> It feels both my duties at home and in the office are exaggerating themselves because I am seemingly available to both of them all the time.

Personally, I just set boundaries and stick to them. When I'm working, I'm unavailable to anyone else at home (except for emergencies) and will help them with whatever they need later. When I'm done with my work, I'm unavailable to the team, no Skype/Slack/Teams on my phone (though they have my phone number for work emergencies).

Admittedly, this works because I do not have kids currently, given that healthily establishing borders then could be a lot more challenging, at least in a positive manner.

That said, if I do make the choice to work longer on something really important, I can do so at a decreased personal expense to myself (no being stuck in commute late in the day), after letting everyone know so that I may leave faster on another day to not burn out.

And taking breaks is suddenly also more healthy due to my own enjoyable surroundings and nobody to care about how I spend said breaks - lazing around the couch, going outside to spend some time with my pets or going for a walk in fresh countryside air (of course, applicable in a limited set of circumstances, depending on where you live).

The environmental impact is also a nice thing, though something that's less of an important point to me - the more noticeable benefit is the lack of having to waste my time commuting.

It all very much depends on what your life circumstances are, though, as well as what your personality is like, which environment is better for you etc.

Thanks for your stories. If you were to start a company from scratch today, how would you organise and divide work from home versus office ?

WFH demand a home office, to be done seriously, a thing most people do not like to accept. A home office means a room, well equipped, closed with a door, with enough noise comfort to been able to speak at normal or even just a bit above normal tones and no one else will hear nor you hear other noises except of a normal quiet background etc.

Not only: since we are social animals we need a social life, in most modern society due to the number of worked hours work life is ALSO social life, in a WFH setup we need a local social life apart of the work life.

IOW for a proper, real, scalable, effective WFH model we need to work less, like OR the morning or the afternoon, even for 6 days a week, or just 4 days a week maximum, to been able to have the work life and the local social life. We need homes with an office per human living there etc. With all that and a bit of habit well I'm pretty confident 80% of people with eligible jobs (around 30% of all jobs I imaging) would like to WFH. It's not a thing that can be done quickly simply because we can't reshape the society quickly. Here is the fault.

With enough time we can (re)build a distributed enough society with distributed enough services that cover people needs AND desire, so we can have local schools for children (as before) because for them being physically together is needed, with enough services for elders, for "middle ages" etc. few industrial districts, because certain productions can't be much distributed, and so on. Such cultural shift can probably happen in 25 years minimum, I doubt the society can be quicker than that...

If I could choose where my office would be then I'd be going in to the office all the time. I would imagine most would, too.

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