Perpetual motion machines are a really old dream. The dream outlived Clausius, Kelvin, and Carnot and it will outlive us. Dreams are durable.
Perpetual motion machines are a really old dream. The dream outlived Clausius, Kelvin, and Carnot and it will outlive us. Dreams are durable.
FWIW, it's not perpetual motion. This is not a claim of free energy, but a claim of matter being converted to energy in a way physicists deem exceedingly unlikely. I, too, would be incredulous of any positive result, but it's not claiming to violate thermodynamics.
Perpetual = outputs more energy than it uses while consuming no fuel, so it fuels itself + some output.
They're claiming it can derive energy from nuclear fusion of hydrogen atoms. This has not been proven to be impossible. In fact, we know it's possible (albiet at much higher temperatures.)
Therefore, there is at least a logical possibility that it's legit, even if their behavior doesn't indicate that so far.
http://daily.wired.it/news/scienza/fusione-fredda-bologna.ht...
"the hydrogen atoms penetrate into the nickel and copper turn. Or at least, this is our interpretation." (gli atomi di idrogeno penetrano nel nichel e lo trasformano in rame. --- translated by google)
The real scientific approach would be to demonstrate the real indicators of supposed reaction. Be it fast neutrons, alpha or some specific radiation frequency. Because when hydrogen supposedly fuses with nickel (lets forget for a moment that nickel is past the iron in the periodic table and thus isn't expected to produce much of, if at all, a fusion energy gain) the energy is released in some very specific and detectable form - either some particle like alpha or some photon of pretty specific frequency and there is nothing easier to detect than that ... much much easier than to compare input/output energy and trace the heat loses/gains through the piping, etc...
I'm a firm believer in the fusion as a practical energy source. We have upper bound - 10Kt thermonuclear weapons that produce net energy gain, we have lower bound - Z machine (my personal favorite as it is just a miniaturized thermonuclear bomb process, which is well proven at Kt scale, with X-rays produced by electric discharge (at 15% efficiency of electric power to X-rays conversion!) instead of nuclear fission primary), Tokamaks, fusor, polywell, NIF with some of them reaching output levels of tens of percent of the input energy. The sweet spot is somewhere in between. It takes money and time to develop it. ITER or even order of magnitude bigger ITER will get us there. The cold fusion which is unknown (in particular it doesn't have such proven upper/lower bounds) and when presented in such unscientific fashion it just undermines the public support, ie. funding for development of proven (in the sense mentioned above) technologies.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nucene/nucbin.htm...
The problem here is that only 4.5% of nickel atoms would even be capable, which doesn't sound like an efficient reaction medium. I don't understand how a full atom would be capable of fusing with nickel when a single neutron can't efficiently fuse with a uranium 235 atom at a .72%.
What I'm wondering is would there be any energy gain from turning Nickel 58 with 30 neutrons into Copper 59, which decays into Nickel 59, which in turn decays into Cobalt 59. However, this decay is long lived (76,000 years so likely not going to result in any immediate energy gains), but then there's the potential of turning cobalt 59 into nickel 60.
So then you reach the question of does turning Nickel 58 into Nickel 60 net you energy? Also would keep forcing a new proton into Nickel 60 making it Copper 61, decaying into Nickel 61 + proton -> Copper 62 -> Nickel 62 (the highest binding energy) actually work?
Honestly, I think they've found a "potential" here, but it's likely just the potential for exploitation. It's been too long since I've done that kind of math to work out if there's the potential for energy gain, regardless of if their 'method' would allow it.
PS: 1MW worth of power from fusion would generate enough radiation to kill a stadium full of people in a fraction of a second without a lot of shielding, but cold fusion people never seem to have an fear of radiation...
No, that's not fair. Perpetual motion, or even more accurately over-unity perpetual motion, cracks physics wide open; violation of conservation of energy means that everything we think we know about fields isn't just a bit off in the details, but blatantly wrong, from the most foundational math we have on up. Successful cold fusion would most likely imply that our understanding of how QM in particles ends up manifesting in more complicated systems is wrong. In this case, really, really wrong, but in general that's less of a shock. We've done a lot of work in things like superconductors and the frontiers of material science that has been something we could characterize that way, and if we ever expect to get quantum computers going we'll need some more. (There's a faint chance that we just plain missed something in QM but I'd consider the missed interaction in large systems far more likely.)
I'll still believe it when I see it and not before, but it isn't quite the same level of crazy.
Well, it depends on the reaction. The p-B reaction ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion#Residual_radi... ) releases the vast majority of its energy in charged particles, which could potentially be converted directly to electricity with not much physical shielding.
(Not that that has anything to do with the linked article, of course).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievert The unit gray measures the absorbed dose of radiation (D), absorbed by any material. The unit sievert measures the equivalent dose of radiation (H), having the same damaging effect as an equal dose of gamma rays.
Both the gray, with symbol Gy and the sievert, with symbol Sv are SI derived units, defined as a unit of energy (joule) per unit of mass (kilogram):
1 Gy = 1 Sv = 1 J / kg
So, 2KW of gamma rays = 2000 joule per second = 2000 Gy / second. But high energy neutrons are significantly worse than gamarays so you need to multiply that by a (function of linear energy transfer L in keV/μm) but in this case we are dealing with a few different reactions all of which are producing 2+ MeV neutrons so it's 2000 times worse than Gamarays.But, how bad could 4,000,000+Gy / second be?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning#Table_of_ex... 6–8Gy = 95-100% Mortality
Granted that's 360^2 degrees so it's spread over 4Pi*R^2, but newton radiation also is really nasty and hard to shield.
No, not necessarily. Only if the output is gamma or, to a lesser extent, neutrons. If it's alpha, even a paper sheet would provide adequate protection.
Obligatory wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion
For more detailed math: http://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=3170622
What's great is the empiricism of energy: we can measure the input and output precisely (given enough effort), and so its pretty easy (comparatively) to tell whether the box does what it says on the lid. Even this demo shows that: the consultants will only pay once the machine shows that the numbers add up.
So there has to be a clear result, where no amount of tweaking will fix the base principle if it's erroneous?
I remain highly skeptical about this, but it's not a perpetual motion scam.
My invocation of perpetual motion is as a fencepost. If you can get people to believe in that, you can get them to believe in anything.
People like clean energy sources. They have good reasons – logical and factual reasons – to desire them. They also don't understand them very well. This has been true for centuries, as illustrated by the history of perpetual-motion scams, and thus it will likely remain true for the foreseeable future. People want to believe, and they will.
You'll learn all about this phenomenon in years two through six of your seven-year Ph.D. program in experimental physics. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider#Cost
> With a budget of 7.5 billion euros (approx. $9bn or £6.19bn as of Jun 2010), the LHC is one of the most expensive scientific instruments ever built.
If only they'd put in $1b more, they'd have found that Higgs boson by now.
So it already was avoiding a definitive answer from the start.