This person should already have enough of a reputation to get a job at many companies, if their work is public enough.
What do you suggest for the 99%+ other candidates?
The internal recruiter said it kept happening for seniors and people with a lot of experience, but his hands were tied, as the leetcode process was deemed important by the CTO.
Why would this be? Old brains not being as "flexible" to think up novel solutions?
So are top leet coders better programmers? Not really, a lot of them are colleges students who have time to practice and they are in similar competitive circle. I’ve interviewed many and couldn’t hire even one
The interviewer themself said "this is probably more aimed at someone who just graduated."
It was for a senior data engineering role, where the odds of me implementing classic dynamic programming problems on the regular are slim to none.
They made me an offer anyway, but I just wonder what value they found in that. Oh, he knows about Big O? He's heard of memoisation?
They were big on FP, apparently. But not Scala, there was too much FP in that for them, hence the TypeScript.
Mind you my first ever rejection was for a Python role back in 2011 when Python was still very niche in my country, and while I had a portfolio of, imo, pretty decent Python code, they weren't interested because I didn't have a degree, and people without degrees write unstructured code.
Which is a very long way of saying, every interview process ultimately devolves into people hiring people like them.
Thinking, ok, this must be an ice breaking joke I responded, "I don't know, how _do you_ sort a list of integers?". In a condescending tone they responded "are you even a programmer?". At the time, I had been in the game for more than 10 years.
I am really not sure how one could successfully build several companies and have shipped several products without knowing "how to sort a list of integers".
Trying to find a good place to grow your career is difficult on many levels, but if you find leetcode questions silly, you might be too advanced for entry level jobs. ...and you probably don't want to work there.
After the 3rd or 4th time doing this, practicing the same problems just to pass interviews isn't very appealing, especially if you've saved money and can do something more interesting.
You could try to "wing it" and derive it on the spot, but you'll be outcompeted by someone doing a lookup of a solution + alternate solutions from cache.
If you’ve never done LC (or any competitive programming) you’ll struggle. Practice more and you’ll recognize the dozen or so patterns.
Also LC is not “novel,” maybe at the time when the algorithm was first devised but not when you have 20 minutes to solve one.
Students are often better at leetcode because school has been drilling this shit into them for the past three years, but it will probably be the last time they see such a compelling algorithmic challenge until their next leetcode exam.
but why must it be mutually exclusive? Are you implying all "robust" solutions, whatever that means, are dumb? Surely you put some thought in it to make it "robust"?
For example, storing some flag in the high bits of a pointer field of a struct is a "clever" solution, whereas having a separate bool field is a "dumb" solution. In most cases, the "dumb" solution is much more robust over time (less likely to cause bugs as the code changes and is modified by various people). Of course, the "clever" solution is necessary in some situations (very constrained environment, critical infrastructure such as an object header used for every type etc), but should often be avoided if possible.
What's important is that the way this is often presented is that more experienced people will prefer "dumber" solutions, as experience often shows that long-time maintainability trumps many small losses of efficiency. So using "clever" and "dumb" in this way is not at all intended to put down the engineer writing the more robust version.
I think there might just be some vernacular nuance here though, maybe we can call it smart and robust, versus clever and opaque. Some problems are just difficult though, and if you get to work on that kind of problem regularly then that is pretty lucky.
You won't create your own linked list library, you'll use one from the standard library.
General runtime analysis can be helpful - but production, real-world benchmarks trump all theoretical performance values.
Code changes - how do I make a change to a production system in a million line code base that has good test coverage and when deployed, won't bring the entire system down. That's an exercise in the coding interviews that is completely ignored but most useful in the day-to-day professional setting.
This is what I always found funny. Most of the software development work these days is related to web apps. Optimizing that nested loop won't do anything if you have to wait 300ms on some shitty API to answer anyway. It literally doesn't matter, noone cares.
Related meme I saw on reddit some time ago where senior developer says 'haha nested for loop go brrrrr':
Personally I'm perfectly happy to be filtered out by such tests and refuse to practice for them, as companies that use them for senior level positions are companies I really don't want to work at.
But then why do people with that kind of reputation still (at certain companies) have to jump through these hoops?
https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our...
> What do you suggest for the 99%+ other candidates?
What about (instead of forcing a months long decision process upon the candidates and the company) bringing them into the company after a short interview (maybe 2hrs), and making sure they can afford housing, food and everything else they need. If you like their work, they stay employed. If, say after one month, you do not like what you see, you can easily let them go. Of course you tell them upfront what the deal is.
We could call it, I don't know, maybe trial or probationary period.
1. Untenable for employees - of I have a mortgage or family or plans or obligations let alone a current job, taking this kind of risk is unacceptable
2. Untenable for companies - that's way too much investment.
Companies do have probation periods formally but they are exceeeeedingly rarely invoked, for above reasons.
Works here. My org recently ditched a bad hire with it.
Certainly companies have probation periods. And on paper, that reality and what's proposed in previous post are similar.
But I think there's a massive real world difference between "Default stay hired" and "Default not stay hired".
Probation, as it has currently been implemented in most companies I've worked in, exists, is formal, can and has been used, but is an exception. It's used when there's a massive, unanticipated, egregious problem in performance.
What is sometimes proposed in these threads is effectively replacing long/multiple interviews, with a probation period. While such probation period may look similar or same on paper, I think it's a completely different approach: "We're sure of you (though possibly wrong) so we're hiring you" vs "We're not sure of you so let's hire you and see!". I for one would have only touched the latter with a 100ft pole maybe once in my life. Certainly, I imagine anybody with current job and monthly obligations, would be quite wary in taking a "we don't know so let's try it!" approach to hiring. No, let's figure it out first please :)
It's the only kind of context in which I'd ever consider the "we don't know so let's try it" approach.
Your article points out that in this example: "I'm not allowed to check in code, no... I just haven't done it. I've so far found no need to.".
> If, say after one month, you do not like what you see, you can easily let them go. Of course you tell them upfront what the deal is.
> We could call it, I don't know, maybe trial or probationary period.
You make it sound like it's a better solution for candidates, but it's way worse for many of them and it has been explained by other commenters already.
How many companies actually do this? At which scale?
Some companies increased their difficulty to hire by having aggressive PIP objectives. Likewise, having a "real" probation period where you fire, say, 10%+ of employees is not gonna make you competitive when candidates compare their offers.
They don't. Your link is not about the interview.
You can't just hire someone based on their reputation at a company of any maturity. That's a legal and HR nightmare. There has to be a process with a semblance of objectivity, and that process has to demonstrably apply to everyone equally, always.
To apply for the 90% tech companies out there. 10% of all tech companies out there are FAANG or FAANG-like. 90% of tech companies are normal tech companies (they'll care about your education and cv and the interviews are usually just a chat. No IQ tests)
In smaller industry niches this can be true for companies more than people. At this point in my career, the fact that I worked at Company X is evidence enough that I can do the job Company Y wants me for, since it's a tight industry they essentially know of the work I was doing, even though it wasn't a groundbreaking novel technology of my own.
Don't know all the details so I could be missing something crucial, but if not it'd seem that reputation isn't enough
Apple homebrew is used by tens of millions of people daily.