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Comment by Siddarth1977 | Hacker News Reader

Siddarth1977

So hurray, people learned from the horrors of the 20th century that socialism inevitably leads to rampant corruption, suffering and genocide? Socialism caused 100 deaths for every death the Nazis caused, I don't understand how we don't see someone advocating for it as equally appalling to someone making pro-Nazi statements.

Whether you look at the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, anywhere in Africa, you inevitably find that socialism brought horrific suffering, extreme poverty and widespread death. It doesn't matter whether the country is big or small, has lots of natural resources or none, is ethnically diverse or homogeneous, in literally every single data point we have, the empirical truth is clear, that private property and competitive businesses create better outcomes than centralized socialist systems.

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"people learned from the horrors of the 20th century that socialism inevitably leads to rampant corruption, suffering and genocide?"

That's not due to socialism but totalitarianism and corruption.

There have been plenty of corrupt totalitarians on the right too, but apparently no one's learned any lessons there, except how to emulate them.

Unfortunately, socialism isn’t a solution for corruption. In fact, many would argue that the centralized power makes it easier/inevitable.

Good start mixing together communism with socialism (which can nicely coexist with capitalism).

And then let me add a nice data point that won't fit your nice narrative: Sweden. While not quite as socialist nowadays compared to maybe in the sixties, but it is still quite a lot more socialist than the US and is actually a pretty decent country to live and work in.

That's a nice point. Some people in the U.S. do need to be constantly reminded that "Socialism with Scandinavian Characteristics" is not authoritarian or anti-capitalist at all! But that's more like the exception that proves the rule.

Sweden isn't socialist.

Sweden has welfare benefits slightly more titled in favor of the benefit receivers relative to the US. California unemployment lasts 26 weeks (182 days) compared to Sweden's 300 days. The USA provides free education from K-12, and then subsidized post-secondary education. Sweden provides citizens free tuition through college (international students pay similar tuition to American universities).

Everything a Swedish citizen might receive from the government, an American would have an analogous program, it just might have a lower payout, shorter duration or have more bureaucratic hassles to get. But it's not like these are fundamentally different systems, they're the same system with some numbers tweaked.

Socialism does not require an entirely different system, one can implement it just fine in whatever democracy one happens to be operating, so large chunks of it are just tweaking some numbers. And some numbers do kinda make a large difference between having to worry about the bank account running dry before the next paycheck or not or being one fall down the stairs away from bankruptcy.

It also declined somewhat since the ~1970s when it was somewhat more socialist than today. But still it is quite a bit more socialist than the US: the points you already mentioned, plus things like universal healthcare, more employee protection, stronger unions (and unions are not a bad word), more paid vacation days (by law not because one has a nice job) and more public/affordable housing.

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