40k coin tosses yield ambiguous evidence for dynamical bias
stat.berkeley.edu
stat.berkeley.edu
That was a pretty unfortunate error in the experiment. Maybe it doesn't matter but now we don't know. It would also have been nice to have them swap coins halfway to expose any individual per coin biasing. It may seem like an irrelevant thing but I've been a lifelong magician specializing in advanced slight of hand coin magic. I carry a set of coins with me all day, every day and handle them constantly. It started out as practice but evolved into both practice and a kind of fidget toy. I have sets of coins I've probably handled for thousands of hours over decades.
Most people think of coins as immutable but they actually change quite a bit after hundreds of hours of handling. Most advanced coin magicians don't tend to use "trick" coins from a magic shop because they are actually too limiting. The coins I use are completely normal circulated coins but they are very specific because there are subtle differences in how coins handle which, at the most advanced levels, can matter. I have year-matched sets of coins I've carefully assembled because they have the degree of surface wear (sometimes called 'softness') and edge-milling which works best for the style of slights I do. Coins also vary in shape and many aren't quite round. I've actually hired a specialized machinist (aka coin-smith) to 'true-up' the shape and then re-mill the edges of certain coins.
Based on my admittedly unusual experience in handling coins, I suspect that weight, edge and surface variations in individual coins could have a material aerodynamic impact at this statistical level (sub-half a percent). BTW, there are coin magicians who have mastered the ability to flip a normal coin and control the outcome to >95%. While the coin is normal in every way, it does need to be a coin they've specifically trained with. Otherwise the hit rate falls considerably.
Same with enhanced sensitivity. I can fairly accurately tell you how many cards I pick up from a group. It's just practice, once you can do 2, you do 3, all the way up to 10, to 15 to 20.
Eg: > “I say, Daniel, is it true what they say, that those coins are perfectly circular?”
> “They are, Isaac—not like the good old English hammered coins that you and I carry in such abundance in our pockets and purses.” ... >“if someone clips or files a bit of metal off the edge of a round coin with a milled edge, it is immediately obvious.”
> “That must be why everyone is melting those new coins down as fast as they are minted, and shipping the metal to the Orient…?” Daniel began,
> “…making it impossible for the likes of me and my friend to obtain them,” Isaac finished.
> “Now there is a good idea—if you can show me coins of a bright silver color—not that black stuff—I’ll weigh them and accept them as bullion.”
> “Bullion! Sir!”
> “Yes.”
> “I have heard that this is the practice in China,” Isaac said sagely. “But here in England, a shilling is a shilling.”
> “No matter how little it weighs!?”
> “Yes. In principle, yes.”
> “So when a lump of metal is coined in the Mint, it takes on a magical power of shillingness, and even after it has been filed and clipped and worn down to a mere featureless nodule, it is still worth a full shilling?”
> You exaggerate,” Daniel said. “I have here a fine Queen Elizabeth shilling, for example—which I carry around, mind you, as a souvenir of Gloriana’s reign, since it is far too fine a specimen to actually spend. But as you can see, it is just as bright and shiny as the day it was minted—”
> “Especially where it’s recently been clipped there along the side,” the lens-grinder said.
> “Normal, pleasing irregularity of the hand-hammered currency, nothing more.”
Almost certainly Stephenson read it in his research, and he gets the nature of Newton totally correct in fictional form.
I managed 11 heads in a row with a quarter when I was in high school. I was intentionally going for heads so it was either beginner’s luck or an absurd statistical fluke.
I'm not a magician, I just learned this one trick/set-of-tricks (and I'm not 95% success at it either).
11 in a row is perhaps still part fluke without training, but as long as you were trying to do the same thing again not unreasonable.
What sort of flourishes/fidgets do you find yourself gravitating to most?
What does great sleight of hand coin magic look like? Who do you admire most?
Where should someone get started if they want to explore this?
There are a huge variety and it's mostly down to personal preference. Popular flourishes include coin rolls and coin stars. Popular slights include dozens of different palms with single and then multiple coins.
> What does great sleight of hand coin magic look like?
Done right it can be absolutely mind-blowing. For an example take a look at some of Danny Goldsmith's videos (https://www.dannygoldsmithmagic.com/). Danny is very, very good but like a lot of specialized skills, those who aren't deeply into it won't be able to notice a meaningful difference between the top 20% of coin workers.
> Who do you admire most?
That's really down to personal taste and style. One unusual thing about magic is that the "best magicians" in the eyes of other experienced magicians are generally people you've never heard of. Fame doesn't really correlate with the pinnacle of skill. While most famous magicians like a David Copperfield are skilled, they would be the first to tell you they can't hold a candle to the most skilled coin workers or card mechanics.
> Where should someone get started if they want to explore this?
For serious coin work, Danny's teaching videos would be a good start. Look for ones he flags as being appropriate for novices. For learning the art of magic in general, I'd suggest not wasting money buying individual "tricks" unless you just want a few easy party tricks to amaze (or annoy) friends with. Most people who get deep into magic discover that the most valuable and broadly applicable knowledge comes from books, videos and live learning (called "sessioning" by close-up workers). I don't buy much magic in recent years because I'm at the point of just perfecting skills, so it's hard to recommend an online store but a safe bet for beginners would be Vanishing Inc. https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/. The guys that run VI are deeply experienced and they seem to avoid selling a lot of the 'crap magic' that looks amazing to novices but isn't actually all that useful. I was at a lecture by the co-founder a few weeks ago and the guy not only has deep knowledge and mad skills, he clearly loves magic and is good at teaching.
If you just want to watch some higher-quality magical performances, I'd suggest Penn & Teller's "Fool Us" show (lots of clips on YouTube). The technical coordinator on that show, Michael Weber, is a long-time magical inventor and author who is well-regarded by other magicians. He and Teller work together to curate the acts that get on the show and you're basically getting to see some top notch talent hand selected by guys who know the difference.
Now you made[1] me want to rewatch Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead[2] again...
I guess it depends on coins, but my experience with French coins is that it's extremely easy to get stable outcomes. Without training or anything, if I start with heads, I almost always get heads, and if I start tails, I almost always get tails. I could totally believe that with training, I could pick the result. But if you let me pick the side that is up when tossing, then I can predict the outcome.
EDIT: probably not after reading the comments. I thought I was smart ;)
https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/249213/#Comment...
(and the associated quest to discover the easter egg of a coin landing on its edge with 1 in a million odds that was added when the bug was fixed)
I ran into the same thing when I made a custom dice roller for Settlers of Catan. Rand(1, 6) never produced a 6, which you could tell if you inspected the comments closely, but still feels counter-intuitive to me.
(or this could just be Catan Crankiness (TM), but we've all noticed it quite a bit...)
The "friendly robber" rule states that you are not allowed to place the robber on any tile that has a village of a player that does not have any points yet.
The crafting system was heavily chance based. You'd get say 7 attempts to augment a piece of gear, using 'scrolls' that had a certain percentage chance of succeeding. The lower the chance, the bigger the improvement to your gear. So a pair of gloves that had 7 successfully applied +attack 10% scrolls would be incredibly valuable. The superstitious method to crafting (which, anecdotally, worked incredibly well) was to get a ton of gloves and a ton of scrolls, and apply one scroll to one pair of gloves and throw them away if it failed. Once you had a single success, you would apply the scrolls as quickly as possible to try and ride the RNG wave. In my experience, this would very frequently result in getting 3+ successes in a row.
I'd love to see the code!
So the Chinese happily obliged. The first 5% of the run was nothing but ultra rare miniatures and none of the remaining 95% printed had any ultra rates. The first people to buy boxes were very happy!
I love that idea of a grifter being able to flip a coin as they choose.
Satisfied that it could be done, I moved on - never used the skill, except as a party trick.
I've seen this happen (or at least appear to happen) in real life where an obviously bored dealer was consistently hitting the same 1/3'd of the wheel and players were taking advantage of it. After a while a suit shows up and starts giving heat not to the players but to the dealer. Chatting them up with nonsense conversation to distract them out of their zone. This wasn't a pit boss/supervisor but casino security - guys that emerge from back rooms to give heat to card counters in blackjack.
The distraction worked: the now very awake and nervous dealer was no longer hitting similar areas and the players moved on to other tables.
Paying off a referee to have the coin turn up heads in overtime in a football game seems like it may net you some profit.
I don't care much about bad refs so long as they are consistently bad. However a perfect ref who missing one critical call is a lot more suspicious. Of course I prefer a great ref, but I can work with a fairly bad ref.
Forcing a coin toss of the kind used in sport, where the coin hits the ground, is more difficult.
"sum (20000 choose x)/2^20000 for x from 10231 to 20000",
which Wolfram Alpha evaluates to 0.00056.
The probability of getting a number of flips that differs from 10000 by at least 231 is twice that, so about 0.001.
So, in fact, the probability of this happening by dumb luck is about 1/1000. That's pretty strong evidence.
I've read an article about a guy who was observing frequencies at roulette long time ago and, based on that, he made some wins. The casino learned that and switched the tables each day, so he wasn't able to win any more.
I could see someone learning exactly how to flip a coin to control how it lands, or at least greatly influencing the outcome.
https://statweb.stanford.edu/~cgates/PERSI/papers/dyn_coin_0...
Wasn't the idea to test the difference between human and machine tosses?
Most of what the statisticians conclude about the physics seems to be based on poor experimental design. measuring human biases in coin flips seems to be a bit off the point-- you'd do better building a machine that emulates humans better, than to take two people and collect a large number of samples between them.
Put another way: when somebody builds a robot and collections the results of thousands of coin tosses, picking two undergrads at stanford and using their physical mechanisms does not advance any useful scientific argument about bias in coin flipping. It just muddles reality with advanced stats on heavily biased data.
> of 20,000 Tails-up tosses (tossed by Priscilla) 10014 landed Tails
Why not do 10,000 Heads-up and 10,000 Tails-up tosses for each person?
Much more boring title: "40k coin tosses reveal bad presumption and a biased coin"
Has anybody tried this while under the influence of "psychic power enhancers" (psychedelics, meditation, sex, etc)?
They have performed lots of experiments where you do a random experiment and try to change the outcome with your mind.
Seems like a hastily done spring projects
The experiment
Over the Spring 2009 semester two Berkeley undergraduates, Priscilla Ku and Janet Larwood, undertook to do the required 40,000 tosses. After preliminary experimentation with practical issues, there was formulated a specific protocol, described in detail below. Cutting to the chase, here is the complete data-set as a .xlsx spreadsheet (see sheet 2). This constitutes a potentially interesting data-set in many ways -- one could compare numerous theoretical predictions about pure randomness (lengths of runs, for instance) with this empirical data. For the specific question of dynamical bias, the relevant data can be stated very concisely
of 20,000 Heads-up tosses (tossed by Janet) 10231 landed Heads
of 20,000 Tails-up tosses (tossed by Priscilla) 10014 landed Tails
cf. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=binomial+distribution+n...