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Comment by gumby | Hacker News Reader

I don't understand what a bank does that requires a physical presence. I have only used small banks in the last 30 years, so that I can reach someone on the phone, but that doesn't mean I have to go in person; I never visited my current bank in person. My kid joined a credit union in a city he's never visited and is unlikely to.

For shops, it's different: it's convenient to be able to pick something up immediately; visiting in person often makes comparisons better; and some things have to be seen in person to buy (fresh groceries, for example, or most books). Occasionally shopping can even be fun (bookshops). But none of those apply to banks.

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A certified cheque, in order to buy a house or secure a large purchase.

Using a virtual bank, I would be able to request one, and have it mailed... the entire time it's being mailed, I would be on pins and needles, because that certified cheque is literally cash, and that cash is no longer in my account.

Should it get lost, you are SOL.

I ramble on about this frequently on HN [1], but the Fed's FedNow instant payment service is going live next year. Initially, $25k will be the limit for value transfer, quickly moving to $100k, and finally supporting up to $500k under certain circumstances. Anything else and you're using FedWire (which tops out around $50M per wire transfer). This should eliminate the need for certified checks and money orders over time, and the fraud that goes with them (although fraud controls around instant payments will still be a risk to be mitigated and accepted in various quantities; the first release of FedNow will supposedly have fraud prevention tooling available to system participants).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31530010

It isn't literally cash, and you aren't sol. You can cancel a certified check, and only the recipient can cash it.

But that's just a terrible financial system, in Brazil you would just wire that money, possibly with a call to your manager to ensure the transaction is ok. But even if you want to use a literal antique like a cheque, you should be able to specify who will be able to cash it out and the money should not leave your account before that is done.

(last time I got a cheque was 2 decades ago as an already semi-dead payment method)

Every modern financial system that isn't designed for fraud has an undo mechanism in it. Some are harder to trigger than others, but nothing is lost.

What country are you referring to? Surely there are hardly any countries where use of a cheque/check is common for any purpose?

This level of financial insanity usually means the US

Use a wire transfer. It's faster than mailing a cheque and only costs like $20.

Twenty dollars for a transfer? I think my bank is expensive because I pay transfers 0.25 euro...

In my neck of the woods wires when buying property are so uncommon my lawyer told me I was the second one ever in her twenty-year practice to do so.

That's funny, I made 5 wires into escrow during my purchase

An old coworker of mine once sold some property to a guy who paid in cash. I would be terribly paranoid the entire day.

Monoanecdata: My credit union called me one day. I had accidentally gone over on my checking account. She asked me if I could bring the cash in that day. I did, and there were no charges leveled against my account for doing so.

Had a similar thing happen - I was underpaying my mortgage by a few cents every month and the credit union caught this. I was able to go to the branch, give them the difference and they didn't fine me anything. Very personal service from the branch manager, which honestly made me more of a fan.

The only time I've been in a real bank in the past 10 years was when I've needed a cashier's check, or a medallion signature for transferring brokerage accounts.

A majority of replies to this comment are only relevant for the dumpster fire that is the US consumer financial space.

To dispense the folding stuff, which I prefer for privacy reasons.

Also one day there will be be a power cut of various size and duration and you digital wallet will become nothing.

We're getting too trusting of tech.

That doesn't require an entire bank. An ATM can dispense cash. Depending on what deals your online bank has, you can probably find a fee free ATM near you even if it isn't an ATM for your bank.

Sure, at some point the ATMs may all get disconnected. But if that happens, your local branch may also be disconnected, so even if you go in person, you still won't be able to access your account.

I guess the ATMs don't have to be yours to be used by you (although if law does not require sharing I would expect they'd be used for lock-in, though that's irrelevant here I suppose).

> Sure, at some point the ATMs may all get disconnected

What I'm saying is that without power digital currencies functionally don't even exist, whereas paper notes do and remain usable, not vanishing from your pocket.

It's totally possible to go entirely remote, but having a local credit union with a local office can have benefits, especially when you need to explain something that wasn't working right (failed mobile deposit, returned bill pay check are two of my recent ones).

It's also nice for certain loans, especially when you can chat with the loan officer and learn that if you push for the 10 year mortgage vs the 15, they don't sell the 10 year ones.

> It's also nice for certain loans, especially when you can chat with the loan officer and learn that if you push for the 10 year mortgage vs the 15, they don't sell the 10 year ones.

I'm confused, you seem to be implying that "we don't sell 10 year mortgages" couldn't be portrayed through digital or telephone banking (and is nice for some reason). Am I missing something or did you miss a word that changes the meaning or..?

You can ask, and they may tell you, but most if not all banks will have a note saying "we could sell servicing or the loan itself at anytime" - the question being what they actually do as opposed to what they could do.

It's a minor thing, but's also the kind of thing you might not find just interacting remotely.

I wish I made enough money to pay a mortgage in 10 years.

And I make a lot of money. Just not that much money.

The key is to just not buy as much house, but that often involves compromises people don't want to do.

How do you withdraw $500,000 from a virtual bank with no branches?

Check, ACH, wire transfer...

I mean, yeah, you're not going to be able to get $500,000 in cash, but that would be a very rare thing anyway.

Edit: and if you show up at your local bank branch and ask for $500,000 in cash on the spot, they probably will not be able to give it to you anyway. You'll have to give them a couple of day's notice, at least.

There is zero chance a normal bank branch will give someone $500k in physical cash with no notice. Even with advance notice I suspect many branches would simply refuse. Most bank locations don't keep all that much cash on hand and don't really want to deal with it more than they have to.

I think the person asking for $500k in unmarked bills probably doesn't want an electronic record of where they are sending the money.

Except that $500k withdrawal is definitely going to draw some attention all on its own.

Suspicious Activity Report. The bank is going to file paperwork which in the US goes to a Federal agency responsible for figuring out what people are doing, some of it might be innocent (e.g. withdrawing $500 000 and putting it in a safe under your bed is a bad idea but not illegal) but much is not.

I see not being able to withdraw $500k cash as a feature

Have you ever tried to withdraw more than 10k from a bank? You have to call ahead and schedule it to the minute. Banks really don’t like to have a lot of cash on hand. I suspect you don’t actually want to have that much cash on hand either. It should go straight from one bank to another.

Cashier's check, bank transfer, or wire.

Is that the use case you should optimize for?

If you must use other bank to cash your money, then your virtual bank is not enough and stands on others. Your dollar is worth slightly less if deposited in such a virtual bank.

you wire the money. I have done it many times.

Have you never had to get cash?

> Have you never had to get cash?

Most online banks reimburse ATM fees. So every ATM becomes your ATM. Which I find more convenient than having to search for branded ATMs.

Actually, no. Now, that I think about it I have not been to an ATM in two years (since before Covid).

Everyone takes Zelle, CashApp, Paypal, Venmo these days.

They still love cash in a lot of European countries. Hell even most barber's / kebab shops in London won't take card in my experience, and I've had the odd embarrassing experience when I've brought food then the banks network was down and I couldn't pay (though they were surprisingly understanding and just told me to come back in a few hours and try again)

With the advent of JustEat etc. practically all the London kebab shops that aren't specifically money laundering fronts are now taking card.

Anecdotally, I can go for months without withdrawing cash.

Have you never heard of ATMs? I get cash from ATMs. I'm not typically getting cash when the bank is open anyways and it's (basically) the only way to obtain cash when overseas.

I only visit an ATM a couple times a year but there's no reason I couldn't go every couple days if I used mostly cash.

Not in the last 5 years. The only cash I ever have on hand is from dropping off my recycling.

I use an ATM 2 or 3 times per year anymore. My wife hasn't been to one in years probably.

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