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Comment by fate_carver | Hacker News Reader

How old are you? Outsourcing? To where? Part of the problem is a "Tech Co-Founder" is already making $300k+ a year. If you want someone to throw a few hours your way, you need to sweeten the pot and step up the talk a bit. Some "Tech co-founders" would actually have to use their time spent on your idea as a write-off. jay, I'm not trying to smackdown on you but what do you have to offer your tech co-founder? Even if you learn to code, what can you offer? Will you need a Marketing VP too? Or legal advice? Or accounting help?

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I'm 24.

In regards to "where" for outsourcing. That is something I have not looked into in detail, but potentially anywhere as long I received quality code.

But anyway, to your other question directed at me (and no need to think your trying to smackdown because I agree entirely with your sentiment), what do you offer...

The things I offer:

1. Vision - I know, to some this (like an idea) means very little

2. Design - I am competent with UI/UX, as well as designing using photoshop and illustrator.

3. Sales/Marketing - I can sell. I'm a good orator and I'm passionate and persuasive (or so I've been told and experienced). In regards to marketing, I've read and learned plenty about it and am always learning more, although I won't claim to be an expert.

4. Accounting/Business - I'm an accountant (well, auditor with CPA) so I do bring that to the table as well. Ultimately, along with accounting, I have a good deal of knowledge on finance and general business issues as well.

Now, perhaps I'm naive to think the above is enough to offer a potential future tech co-founder. However, it's what I've got and, above all, I am incredibly passionate and hardworking. I know that would matter a lot to me in choosing someone to work with (perhaps more so than raw talent/skills), so I can only hope the same can be said the other way around.

Anyway, you also bring up a good point about the problem about the "tech co-founder" in that they have far more opportunity (a good one anyway) than I might offer, so why me? It's the reason I have made this post and offer up the decision to code things myself or outsource. I know where I have a weakness, even if I learn to code, I still won't be as proficient as I need to be. So, I will need someone.

I guess my hope is that by actually creating something and having customers, that traction (along with the list of things I believe I have to offer) will entice a "tech co-founder" to come join up with me.

A CPA! Kudos. I know that is not easy, my fiancee just tested for her CPA...but I would hate to see the code she would write : ) This is way before your time, but Kenny Rogers had a lyric, "Got to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em" which can extrapolate to your perceived need to do everything. You can do everything, or anything, but where do you draw the line? Janitor? QA testing? Chief Bottle Washer? I'd "hold" on running the company, but "fold" on writing the code.

If you do decide to "outsource" do you mean offshore? Perhaps Rent-a-coder isn't a bad idea, but just make sure the coder(s) are available after they write the code, have them sign a non-compete, and possibly outsource a second coder to review the code if you are not getting the warm and fuzzies from the first team. Ask for well-documented code including an overview explanation, approach, architectural considerations, and lots of comments. Ask for their best work. Again, I wish you the best and I hope that once you get your prototype up you let us all know so we can kick the tires with you.

One last thing: Stop worrying about the tech co-founder and get this project in the bag! Heck, the more you type the less likely a Tech Co-founder is going to want to come on board! Get 'er done!

Thanks Fate. Good luck to your fiancee, I know it's tough. If she needs any advice on the exams, let me know.

You are right. I will just have to get it done. At this point, I'll go with outsourcing, which doesn't necessarily mean offshore, but it could. I want quality work. I will have to do my research about it but will look into sites like rent-a-coder, odesk, elance, etc. I'll approach it as you said, I appreciate the help.

I still will try to learn to code on a basic level to converse and not be entirely blind to what's going on, but I'm not sure if it's a good choice to try and program when it would take a significant time commitment. I'm not against a time commitment, but by saving that time, it frees me to focus on other areas of the business.

ANYWAY! I will stop with the typing.

It seems my choice is to stay with my job (although I might leave to find one that is less all-consuming of my time) and outsource the initial development. Obviously it would have been ideal if I already knew how to code or had a good friend who could code and wanted to join me. Unfortunately, neither is the case... and I'm not sure creating the MVP myself is the best proposition.

If someone thinks otherwise, let me know though. Perhaps I'm missing something here.

Lastly, any advice on outsourcing development would be appreciated. Thanks.

Just had this pop up on my reader: http://appicurious.com/2011/10/26/inglorious-applications/#....

Like another poster alluded to, save up some money (keep your job). Interview 5+ developers with entrepreneurial tendencies, pick one, thank the others, hire the one you picked, tier their compensation on milestones.

You already founded this, so looking for a co-founder is fairly moot. Hire someone, give them a chance to shine, bring them in as a partner. If trying to force the "tech co-founder" isn't working, try something else. As for outsourcing...I think it is a silly word that means "not committed". You're not committed to them, they are not committed to you...in the end you have your prototype, but know far less about it then if you hired someone, even an intern, and had them walk you through their process and the code...most outsourced help would probably not do that for you. A less risky move is to hire someone on 1099 for the project...you probably know more about those rules than most.

If you waste too much time fretting over the details, you'll never get it off the ground. Check your balls, take the leap. You will never be 100% correct (you damned accountant! : ) so take your best shot and learn what you are made of.

Post an email link or phone number in your about and I'll give you a call and a swift kick in the ass if you need it.

I appreciate the link. It's good to hear someone say that design is important. I've read similar sentiments here and there, but it's often touted that the code is far more important (especially here, understandably so). I think there definitely must be a balance and hopefully that means my talents are valuable.

Anyway, I appreciate the advice about hiring someone. I will have to consider a way to go about doing that, it's tough though... being that I cannot hire/pay someone for too much of an extended period of time. I just don't have that money.

However, it is definitely a better route than outsourcing for the reasons you mentioned. I guess I'll just have to see if I can find a way to make it happen, the intern example is a possibility.

I'll try not to waste too much time on the details and trying to be 100% correct (lol, you've got me with that one). I'll be making the leap, soon.

I have added my email to my "about me" so feel free to shoot me an email and give me a hard time if I'm not getting going!

Anyway, thanks again. I truly appreciate the feedback.

You, and I and most of HN, see this conundrum every time we want to start something. In your case, since you don't have the geek chops, you have the following choices:

1) Get lucky and find a TCF willing to work for equity. 2) 'Hire' a company/freelancer to build your MVP 3) Hire someone to grow with you and build your MVP 4) Do it yourself

My opinion is that if your product is actually worth all of this fuss then you have to put your money where your mouth is. I would keep the job, read more about development, save some money, and figure out how you are going to hire someone on a project basis (1099/freelancer)...there will come a time, MVP or not, that you will have to make that leap. Sure, today is not the day. Let's say you get your MVP created, its a hit, and then what? What about hosting it on EC2 or dedicated servers? What about some marketing? What about some legal reviews? What about incorporating (kinda need that to realistically spread equity to partners and investors)? If you did outsource the MVP how are you going to get your new dev team up to speed when you do hire...and what if it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up because the outsourced dev did not take scaling, security, or authorization into account? What about the other 10,000 things that are going to hit you?

You'll be fine. I see a lot of people that have the best of intentions that are not fiscally capable of starting a business. You at least have a job. Some of these stories of creating the next whiz-bang site with 10 Million users on the first day and only $1.57 in startup capital are definitely the exception and not the rule. If you compare yourself to that success, then you are being unfair on yourself and on your future team. All of this lean startup talk ticks me off because some times you do need some capital to make it happen. That is where outsourcing may help a bit, but what ask yourself if losing the knowledge of the code is worth it? Fate's word of the day: Conundrum.

jaypreneur's head must have exploded. : )

Nope. Fortunately, no explosion. :) I actually just had a late day at work so haven't gotten a chance to come back to this.

But in regards to your reply. It really sums everything perfectly and I can't thank you enough for your help. It has given me a lot to think about and figure out... and ultimately start accomplishing. I think the route of hiring someone to freelance and not just have it outsourced and part ways is a far better strategy. If they can guide me through what they are doing, why they are doing it, and even be there after completion as well... it'd be 100 times better than being left with a cheaper site but being a bit more blind to what's going on and when going forward.

Again, I can't thank you enough for your help.

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