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Comment by jamal-kumar | Hacker News Reader

I mean you can do what I did and leave. A lot of intelligent people have already. Hello, doctor shortage?

It's a nice passport.

Leaving the country is not trivial for most people. I see this comment a lot from people who have left, but for lack of a better term it's an extremely "privileged" position.

If you're either not in a high demand industry, not highly skilled, or lack a degree you aren't going to be leaving Canada. Even if you are all of those things it can still be difficult.

I'd leave in an instant but despite being highly skilled I lack a university degree which in my experience has made it almost impossible, despite trying.

Or have family/dependents that mean you cannot just up and leave your home country.

This, along with the increasing awareness regarding consumption and emissions, is way bigger than most people make it out to be. Even without dependents, it seems easy until you realize if anything happens to your immediate family, it becomes a lot more difficult to see them (and vice versa).

It's a tradeoff between freedom and community, but it's still a tradeoff most people aren't fully aware off.

"highly skilled I lack a university degree which in my experience has made it almost impossible, despite trying."

I'm in the same boat, highly skilled and lack a university degree. I left for ~8 years and came back.

The TN visa program has many qualifying jobs that dont require uni degrees.

It was VERY easy.. apply for US job, take US Job offer to the boarder, pay like $35 and get a TN stamp in my passport. Use this to get a Social security number, bank account, etc.

I'm STRONGLY advising all my kids leave. The taxes and how you are treated in Canada is shitty.

Try finding a Doctor here, or sign up for any programs. 6 month wait lists, overbooked, overcrowding... This country LOVES to make promises to get your votes, takes your tax dollars to pay for it, but fails to deliver when you need the services you paid for?

Get a decent job, they will provide good coverage and you can see a doctor next-day.

Surely relocating your life is such a big move that you can plan for it ahead of time and get a degree? It doesn't have to be from a good, expensive university, as long as it's recognized.

And I think for software engineers with experience getting a degree in CS while not trivial is doable, especially if you're not hoping for high grades.

Wait, are you saying it's reasonable to radically restructure the next few years of one's life just to protest internet prices?

I don't have a uni degree either, kinda sounds like a you problem for lack of a better term

A plane ticket out of Canada has never costed me more than half of average monthly rent in BC

How is the cost of a plane ticket relevant at all? I can afford to fly around the world tomorrow if I want, that doesn't matter.

> I don't have a uni degree either, kinda sounds like a you problem for lack of a better term

I'm not going to partake in this dude. You don't have to be nasty because I suggested you might be privileged in some way.

Not everyone gets the same opportunities and not everyone has the same life circumstances.

"You don't have to be nasty because I suggested you might be privileged in some way."

it is always external factors isn't it? He's privileged, I went to the US for years because i am privileged.. Everyone else who has done this is privileged?

This is sort of the "everyone thinks they are above average which is impossible" problem.. Not everyone can be "privileged".. maybe that isnt the issue after all?

what have YOU done to make YOURSELF admissible? No one will do this for you... there isn't any form of "Affirmative action" program to enter a foreign country.

They admit based on your skills and abilities and their needs to fill those roles. Look at the requirements, find out what you are missing..

In which case I wish you all the best of luck that your outlook improves.

It's not the ticket out. It is the right to work in another country. Generally that requires some skills that are in short supply. That doesn't necessarily mean having a degree, but that doesn't hurt when trying to get a work visa.

So out of curiosity and someone who isn't Canadian, what exactly is keeping individuals?

Most countries I see, the problem is one of the two. Non-English industry and one doesn't speak the native language. Missing a desirable education + experience combo (e.g. any masters or PhD, STEM bachelor, software dev with 3+ YoE).

I'd imagine most individuals looking here would hit one of the requirements on the last, and English tends to be the language spoken in software dev in most of the world (or at least, the ability to). Several may be willing to accommodate non-native language speakers on several other fields, too.

At the very least, I know much of Europe is bending over backwards for skilled workers (backlash from trying to cheapen everything and from the US taking EU's skilled workers, I guess) and the US is Canada's neighbor.

Out of curiosity for someone who is Canadian, what’s the assumed pull? Historically it would be income and career opportunities, but the tide has turned on that quite significantly in the last 5-10 years. Outside of that, it’s safe, clean, people are friendly, there are nice things. With a middle of the road tech salary the price of internet is a non concern.

That said, Canadian politics and crony capitalism are a grind sometimes, but looking over the fence it’s not totally obvious that other systems aren’t trading one set of intractable problems for another.

> Historically it would be income and career opportunities, but the tide has turned on that quite significantly in the last 5-10 years.

Has it?

When hiring for US positions we get a lot of resumes from Canada.

A plane ticket doesn’t come with a work permit.

Canada has problems, and it's good to talk about them lest we never be rid of them.

Suggesting "just leave" is a pretty facile argument if I'm being abundantly generous.

Fleeing a country whenever you take issue with industry cronyism is an excellent way to move to a new country every 3 weeks. It's also a great way to make sure whatever policies you disagree with flourish in your absence.

Changing country comes at a huge financial and emotional cost not everyone can afford.

What country did you move to that magically doesn't have any problems?

Canada has the same doctors per capita as the U.S., it's just that in Canada access to health care is considered a defacto universal right whereas in the U.S. for much of the population health care is a privilege or benefit associated with employment.

You left over internet and mobile bills? Damn.

I ran a VoIP company before leaving because of spook interference. Long story I won't tell here.

on concurrent note can't get out of country car insurance which is 200-300$/month for a junker car just collision liability bare basics. it is a bit of a crisis way established institutions fleece us Canadians.

Where do you live? I'm in a medium-sized city near Toronto and pay around $60. Mid-20s, male, basic liability on a 19-year-old VW.

Toronto downtown, thats the quotes I got for toyta Camry 18 years old.

didn't realize there was a doctor shortage in Canada - all I ever hear about countries with socialized medicine is how they are better than the US at delivering health care more cheaply - possibly true in some respects, but if there is no doctor to see you, than it really doesn't matter.

US system is far from perfect, but at least I can always find a doctor when I need one.

There's a shortage of primary care, family doctors in Canada, but that's a systemic issue resulting from a skewed payment system that undervalues family medicine. The result is some difficulty getting a family doctor after you leave home as many practices are fully booked with patients and there aren't as many young physicians entering family medicine as we need.

The outcome is having to go to a walk-in clinic or (worst case) the ER room if you need care and don't have a doctor. That's inconvenient because of having to sit in the waiting room for a few hours.

In Alberta there is a genuine issue with doctors leaving the province (mostly for other provinces, not the country entirely), but that is the direct result of the conservative government there waging war on the public medical system in an effort to build support for a private system.

The only place I hear about the terrible medical care situation in Canada is in the American far-right press and some of their Canadian surrogates (e.g. Rebel News in Alberta).

Is there a country on the planet without a doctor/nurse shortage? I've never heard anyone anywhere say that their had too much healthcare available. No healthcare system is perfect but Canadians are not dropping dead in the streets for lack of doctors. There are localized issues, mostly due to the distances involved in Canada, but the population as a whole is doing better than most.

Just look at the COVID numbers. For all its problems, Canada's healthcare system is handling COVID far better than the US.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60380317

I ask Canada for a specialist and I'm on a waiting list for half a year and then my appointment gets cancelled.

I fly to Latin America and go to a doctor throw down less than 100$ and my health is immediately better. Total investment stays under 1000$.

Yes. In Latin America rich people can almost always purchase better/faster healthcare. Lots of things are cheaper in other countries. Rich people in the US can buy instant healthcare too. Your cash just wont go as far in the US.

US has their own versions of this.. basically all General Practitioner aka Family Doctor offices closed here twenty years ago.. rural areas have not one local doctor in many places of the USA - keyword search "medically underserved"

>didn't realize there was a doctor shortage in Canada

It is impossible for someone who moves to Halifax, for example, to get a new primary care doctor (<https://globalnews.ca/news/2668767/halifax-area-doctor-says-...>, <https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/john-ross-healthc...>).

> US system is far from perfect, but at least I can always find a doctor when I need one.

You can easily find this, and basically every other problem and horror story from countries with universal care, in the US. Long wait times, trouble finding doctors who are taking new patients, trouble getting appointments with specialists. All that stuff. It varies by location and by which healthcare "networks" you have access to.

And on top of that we get the how-the-fuck-is-this-still-a-thing nightmare of US healthcare billing.

It's awful if you have a chronic health condition or need specialists but when you get hit by a car and don't have to pay a huge hospital bill it is pretty cool.

Still it's hemorrhaging talent because of dumb pay schemes that could probably be fixed overnight if it wasn't for the aforementioned financial illiteracy

In Canada you get what you pay for... Healthcare is free but it's also pretty shit. Care in Europe is far better, care in the US is far better if you have money.

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