Never underestimate the power of hype.
I think ID.4 is a significantly better car and I trust the manufacturer much more than Tesla. But the average guy on the street doesn't even know about this car.
I think ID.4 is a significantly better car and I trust the manufacturer much more than Tesla. But the average guy on the street doesn't even know about this car.
And if you go look at the breakdown of the two cars, there isn't really anything that makes the ID.4 stand out in terms of technology.
And in terms of software/electronics its clearly not as advanced, VM even clearly admits this.
Its better value to be sure.
They got some money to demonstrate the technology and they did. They never committed or were required rolling this technology out on a large scale. And it was really not that much money.
If that is the example you go to, you are really deep in the barrel to come up with something.
But I guess one person is douche on twitter and that whats most important.
My guess is you don't like their handling of developing FSD. That seems to be the most often mentioned on here.
To be fair, even the name is misleading. It's not fully-self-driving.
Yeah, a dispute with the SEC about the meaning of a twit is much more important for the world then the millions of children breathing unhealthy air.
Really details of security law that basically hurt nobody except some short term traders as most really is the most important thing in the world.
> horrendous Vegas loop
Seems like that is for the costumer to decide and they were happy and even want to extend the system. But I guess twitters opinion
> pumping dogecoin
Talking about something you like is not illegal. In fact by just mentioning dogecoin you made it more famous and pumped it.
Unless you can prove pump-and-dump scheme its totally irrelevant.
> teslas removal from ESG
You mean the index where oil companies are ESG compliant and Tesla isn't. Yeah that really is far more important then lying millions of cars gas output. Like, why would you even care about that?
Wow. Is this the kind of society you want? One where the richest man in the world can profit from securities fraud? If us peons can’t commit fraud, neither should Elon. Shit, by your logic we should all be out committing financial crimes right now! FYI it wasn’t a dispute he settled for 20MM, but he’s rich enough to not care.
Don’t forget about about solar city, where musk knowingly purchased a distressed company owned by his cousin without disclosing the info to shareholders. Add nepotism to my list please.
Also note his ongoing twitter acquisition. He’s clearly manipulating the stock price to get a better deal AFTER agreeing to the purchase and waiving due diligence. He’s being sued.
On the Vegas loop, he delivered nothing close to what was promised. The carbon/man hours expended building that horribly inefficient Tesla advertisement could’ve been used to created a reasonable transit system.
On dogecoin…lol. You can’t be serious. He’s promoting an obvious joke as a serious financial asset to uneducated, poor “investors”. Dogecoin is down 90%.
Thanks for ignoring the FSD beta testing and union stuff.
He’s been accused of sexual misconduct, called that Thai dude a pedo, and became ultra rich off countless empty promises. We were supposed to have FSD, a mars colony, neuralink and a hyper loop by now. He’s sold bullshit all the way to the top and STILL receives subsidies from the government…then turns around and sells them to the polluting auto companies he claims to replace.
Better to lie to the detriment of the environment than to the detriment of the consumer like Tesla does.
What VW did is essentially what developing countries do for their citizens by declaring bogus CO2 numbers in order to make the IPCC/UN/COP happy and keep granting the welfare and quality of life of their citizens providing energy they badly need to live like they deserve.
Too bad they got caught, hopefully the model can be replicated by TATA and Great Wall Co. Ltd as well as other car manufacturers which are located in jurisdictions which are not subject to the ESG tyranny.
Vehicles aren't a societal purchase, they are an individual's purchase. They should maximize the welfare of the individual who pays up the money.
I'd be disappointed if VW didn't keep researching ways to get around emission targets for the benefit of the consumer and against ESG tyranny.
"German AutoBild March 2022 – EV Range Test at Highway Speed" (In German): https://www.autobild.de/artikel/e-auto-autobahn-reichweite-t...
They Tested 28 Models - Top 10:
---------------------------------------------
Mercedes EQS -> 444 km ( 276 Miles)
BMW iX xDrive 50 -> 434 km ( 270 Miles)
Ford Mach-E GT -> 367 km ( 228 Miles)
Audi RS e-tron GT -> 367 km ( 228 Miles)
Porsche Taycan 4S -> 352 km ( 219 Miles)
Tesla Model 3 Performance -> 337 km ( 209 Miles)
VW ID.4 GTX -> 332 km ( 206 Miles)
VW ID.4 Pro -> 328 km ( 204 Miles)
Audi Q4 e-tron 40 -> 326 km ( 203 Miles)
Skoda Enyaq iV80 -> 316 km ( 196 Miles)
---------------------------------------------
Sure your EQS has 444 km but have fun recharging that 107 kwh monster battery...
The name of the game is efficiency and here are the result in that test:
| Model | Range KM | Battery (kwh) | Efficiency |
| ------------------------- | -------- | ------------- | ---------- |
| Tesla Model 3 Performance | 337 | 75 | 222.55 |
| Mercedes EQS | 444 | 107.8 | 242.79 |
| VW ID.4 GTX | 332 | 82 | 246.99 |
| VW ID.4 Pro | 328 | 82 | 250 |
| Audi Q4 e-tron 40 | 326 | 82 | 251.53 |
| Audi RS e-tron GT | 367 | 93.4 | 254.5 |
| BMW iX xDrive 50 | 434 | 111.5 | 256.91 |
| Skoda Enyaq iV80 | 316 | 82 | 259.49 |
| Porsche Taycan 4S | 352 | 93.4 | 265.34 |
| Ford Mach-E GT | 367 | 98.8 | 269.21 |
Also I find the result of the EQS suspicious low given the weight of the vehicule, whereas the Tesla's consumption is surprisingly high. I don't think it should be over 200wh/km at 130km/h under normal conditions.
It also seems arbitrary to claim efficiency is the "name of the game".
Surely consumers will choose whether they prefer long range, low cost of charging, fast charging etc, and there's no one right answer?
https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging...
It's interesting that VW seems to use a standardized 82kWh battery back in their MEB platform and achieves basically the same range as the Tesla 3 with 75kWh. Appears this is engineered to the point.
Why is Teslas Efficiency 10% better? My understanding is that they use SiC transistors in their inverter while the MEB uses Silicon IGBTs. A trade-off between reliability (Si), cost (Si), performance (SiC). How much of the difference is caused by this?
The table is mixing net (usable capacity) and gross (total capacity) battery sizes. The battery in the ID.4 is 82 kWh gross but 77 kWh usable. The ID.4 is also an SUV model whereas the Model 3 is a sedan.
My point was that the posted article is non-sense, and likely really just an advertisement piece for the german cars.
Claiming the EQS is best because it has a decent range with a 107kwh battery is infuriating. We should be moving to smaller battery on light efficient vehicles and not make monster 3 tons EV like this.
The Model 3 performance is 80 kWh total capacity (82 kWh on the newer ones).
> We should be moving to smaller battery on light efficient vehicles
No. People will buy the cars they want. If they want the luxury of an Mercedes EQS then that's what they'll buy. If they want the excess of a Hummer EV then they'll buy that too.
There need to be better batteries with greater energy density for a smaller pack weight once decent range is achieved.
The facts are the following:
- Tesla is known for its electrical system efficiency
- The model 3 as a drag coeff of 0.23 vs 0.28 for the ID4.
- The model 3 perf weight 1844 kg vs 2045 kg for the ID4.
Regardless of how badly this test was conducted, especially at highway speed, there is no way in hell the model 3 does not beat the ID4 in this test unless it was conducted in bad faith (which I think is likely).
So either the Tesla they used did not have a 80kwh battery, or they didnt conduct a fair test. It's impossible for an ID4 to beat a model 3 in efficiency in the same conditions on the highway.
It does have an 80 kWh battery. Again, you're confusing usable capacity and total capacity. Your table is wrong. You're comparing a Model 3 Performance's usable capacity with the MEB cars' total capacity.
> there is no way in hell the model 3 does not beat the ID4 in this test unless it was conducted in bad faith
Maybe this will help you. Here's a range test of a Model 3 Performance with the 82 kWh battery. Note that he measures the usable capacity at 76 kWh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj3vUh5RqMc
A similar test in an ID.4 GTX. Measured at 75 kWh usable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFz2mz5GOL0
The actual kWh you get out of the battery depends on a variety of factors like driving speed, temperature, battery condition and age, etc.
ID.4 seems to outperform their WLTP/EPA range numbers whereas most Model 3s seem to under-perform in the real world. Maybe VW has learnt from the Diesel scandal.
[1] https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-cons...
It's time for tree huggers to provide the same quality of life of oil.
If they can't then it's on them not on the consumer. Time to put up or shut up.
The new Cadillac Lyriq is a step in the right direction.
But I also must say that the 59,995$ MSRP Gasoline Corvette C8 is a step in the right direction as well.
When people dream that's the sort of cars they dream about: attainable luxury of a Lyriq or the attainable C8 which is essentially an affordable Ferrari made in Detroit.
People don't want to own a Tesla which is plain on the outside and frankly speaking very empty and low quality once you step inside
I don't know why they get better efficiency but I suppose that they still have some significant technological advantages compared to the others.
Plus better EV tech? More efficient power curves. More efficient regenerative braking.
I dispute the fairness of claiming the Model 3 has worse range when it's obviously the most efficient vehicle of the lot and the most appropriate BEV if you care about driving at highway speed.
This is a crazy twisting of thought. Like, it's 100% true that the model 3 has worse range. That's like "oh, it's not fair to claim that the model 3 is smaller when it's actually the lightest vehicle". I mean, "oh, it's not fair to claim X about the model 3 because while that's true, on this other metric Y the model 3 ranks differently".
Comparing the mileage of cars that are sized wildly different is kind've pointless.