How come most people say software devs are in demand and then there is this comment saying he receives 4000+ applications on a job and nobody in Europe should consider this career?
Can perspectives on reality be this far apart, or is he trolling?
Can perspectives on reality be this far apart, or is he trolling?
That's without considering the related huge levels of gatekeeping now happening in hiring. Some experienced people are just too jaded to deal with it.
I've done this many times (before working in big tech) and I have always received a response. There is only 1 company that I've failed to get through for at least some kind of a screen: MSFT. They seem to want nothing to do with me.
Or make them do leetcode stuff, I think this situation is basically what that whole part of the process is for.
If someone entering the field now has nothing (e.g. CS degree from a good university, high-quality projects), to help him raise above this noise, it's a fool's gamble.
I'm currently trying out whether frontend development could be for me in my mid thirties. I knew that bootcamp marketing and YouTubers were exaggerating when it came to the jobs and their requirements. But I didn't think there would be so much 'noise' indeed.
I guess that means to only go through with it if you are really, really good and actually enjoy doing it. Not because it promises money and job stability.
For someone young (early to mid 20s), I agree with what you wrote. Being really, really good and actually enjoying doing it, should be a must.
For someone of your age or older, I see a lot more risk. If you start from zero, it will take you at least 5 years to build up ammunition (a degree from a good university and some demonstrable experience) that's going to open the doors that you need open and give you a shot at passing the entrance tests. And then the "being really, really good" part comes in except you're now 5 years older facing fierce competition and there's no guarantee that you will succeed (who knows what the market will be in 5-10 years, the trajectory doesn't look promising).
Personally, I wouldn't do it. The skills needed to offset the risk are hard to acquire in the timespans we're talking about, unless you're truly exceptional. But offseting the risk for me means living in the US and working at one of the FAANGs (job security and very high total compensation). Others see it differently.
Funny thing is, I considered coding because I didn't see my natural talent as a copywriter (not in english) to be recession proof enough. Then everyone talked about how coders are in such demand etc.
I never stopped to think that tech is an industry like any other. And that when the economy tanks all those start-ups and companies who are willing to gamble on an inexperienced junior dev will behave very differently.
Doesn't speak for my problem solving skills, actually. Lol.
I will surely re-evaluate my motivations.
I will say we've been trying to hire two seniors for the better part of 6 months and most of the people we end up on the phone with either end up going somewhere (presumably for more $ but it's rare to get a reason), or they do so poorly on the technical screen it makes you wonder if they just used someone else's resume. Nothing in between the two - I've been in my current EM role for probably 3 months, have done maybe 20-25 interviews, and we've extended 4 offers. One accepted then took a different job two days before his start date, one accepted, two declined.
I'll share my personal experience, in case it helps. I only apply to small startups (less than 50 employees, but I usually get hired in places with <10 people). These have much more straightforward and short hiring processes. I find those companies solely from HN Who is Hiring thread or AngelList. I never got anything from a job post on Linkedin (much less Indeed and etc). I am a frontend developer, but I do see a lot of Python positions.
If you filter for companies based in the US only, the pay is pretty good.
There is a lot of luck involved in getting hired (especially after going through an interview, since from there the process is very subjective). It sucks, but you just have to keep trying. One day you will be the lucky one. Good luck!
Or do you give up some TC for the other benefits of working at these small startups?
If you want to drop me an email, the least I can do is offer some feedback on your resume / online profile(s).
My friends who work in nursing tell me it's not that there isn't a talent pool, it's that they are short staffed due to hiring limitations more than lack of interest, which then feels like being short staffed because everyone is putting in more time, which makes the environment suck, which does make people quit, especially exaserbated with covid and conspiracy theorists treating them poorly. But until the underlying issues are solved, it's not a real shortage as there are qualified people looking for work but not being hired.
Teacher shortage is similar, not willing to pay them enough(even when school funding is high, teacher pay stays low), and the amount of bullshit they have to put up with seems to go up every year, which is unrelated to amount of people with teaching credentials.
Programming has a similar problem, every company wants senior roles but very few are willing to train, so it's a bottleneck more than a shortage.
Now if only there was a way to monetize a COBOL or ABAP channel on Youtube, hmmm…
*Edited for clarity
Why would you assume he's trolling? In some EU countries the market is insanely competitive due to great free schools churning out coders like crazy due to the tech hype, plus tons of skilled immigrants from developing nations trying to break into the market, so companies are very picky since they get bombarded with applications, so people with little experience or failing the culture fit or whatever arbitrary metrics are used, can easily fall through the cracks and not find a job despite being talented.
The high demand you hear is true, but only for experienced seniors and, since nobody wants to take in juniors and train them this creates a bottleneck of artificial scarcity despite the high supply of less experienced devs.
A troll, or very isolated individual (perhaps both).
Maybe 20 years ago.
Then there's also complete dreamers. I hear football clubs often get guys who've played Champ Manager sending in an application on a whim.