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Comment by arvinsim | Hacker News Reader

It is an issue because our current capitalistic system is based on infinite growth. Either we change it or suffer the consequences.

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We can keep infinite growth by being continuously clever and developing better technologies, methadologies, and sciences. This is what Japan did and is why their GDP keeps pace with other societies.

Certainly. However it will not change, at least it will not change of its own accord. A Declining birth rate is merely a symptom of cultural anxiety and despair.

The post-war generation is enormous and they living longer than any generation ever has. In nearly every developed country they hold the power and the capital, and they are short term focused in every possible way. They plan to drive the bus into the brick wall at full speed to protect the last few minutes they have to enjoy the ride.

Articles such as are a thinly veiled demand for fealty. Why aren't you having more children? Why aren't you buying into the world order we created?

Exactly. If you actually want people to reproduce then the economy should be organized to maximize the fulfillment, comfort, and security of individuals. The real issue is they (our leaders and corporations) need an ever-increasing pool of labor to drive the infinite growth economy that they are heavily invested in.

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."

-- Herbert Stein ("Stein's Law")

No it's not. Capitalism is a form of universal exchange and nothing more, it has been brought under control in some reasonable countries. American capitalism is a long term guaranteed failure though, but it's a boom and bust cycle and could go on into perpetuity. Doomers always underestimate human ingenuity. Money will move around to different “growth” industries until they collapse (like tech social media is right now, only so much you can grow).

You are confusing capitalism with market economies. The primary goal in capitalism is the accumulation of capital and that obviously requires endless economic and population growth. If there are less people, the need for additional capital decreases which means there is less capital to accumulate.

Capitalism is effectively an insane economic framework where the yield on capital is not allowed to become negative as that would go against the ultimately empty goal of capital accumulation.

If you consider capitalism to be a form of universal exchange then why exactly does the division of labor collapse the moment growth stops? Oh right, because capitalism and free(=freedom) markets are mutually exclusive. The interests of those who own and want to accumulate capital override those who want to exchange goods and participate in the division of labor, that is what a depression is.

Not the person you're replying to, but I think "current" and "system" in "current capitalistic system" are key here. They weren't railing against capitalism in general, but the current system, which is quite a different thing.

For my part, I'm not opposed to "capitalism" in general, but I have quite a few gripes with the current implementation of it.

There is no implentation of capitalism that will ever be unproblematic. No amount of bandaids is going to solve the fact that capital yields can be both positive and negative. When looked at it from this perspective, capitalism is a race to an end goal, not a goal in itself but once people are at the finish line, they don't want the race to finish.

There's no implementation of any political or economic system that's not unproblematic in various ways. Capitalism isn't any different here.

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