Hacker News Reader

Comment by rob74 | Hacker News Reader

What was special about the first two Monkey Island games (at least for me) was the atmosphere. I mean, just look at this screenshot: https://www.adventurecorner.de//uploads/images/games/monkey1... Parts 1 and 2 had this effect on me, with part 3 the magic was mostly gone unfortunately. If Return to Monkey Island manages to recapture some of that, I don't care if it's pixel art or whatever else...

View on HN

I've been thinking about that quite a lot, but with Zelda games. I've come to the conclusion that the old games feel beautiful and mysterious and nostalgic because I played them as a child. I'm no longer a child, life is no longer the same. It's not necessarily worse, it's just fundamentally different. I will never blame Shigeru Miyamoto for that, it would be absurd.

There is a large component of that, but it's not just that for me.

Minecraft evokes much of that sense of magic and wonder for me and I didn't start playing it until my later 30s.

Other key components are:

* A world that is interactive enough to feel like a place where you are and not just imagery that you're skimming over.

* Art that is detailed enough to be evocative but not so detailed that it reaches the uncanny valley of looking real-ish but not actually real.

Minecraft does both in spades.

I think this is a big part of why I still enjoy playing Morrowind more than pretty much all newer open world games.

It felt like you were really in a place, and the lack of HUD directing you to "points of interest" made it that much more exciting and interesting when you discovered something new.

> It felt like you were really in a place, and the lack of HUD [...]

In a word - immersion. The vast majority of RPG games suck at it. In-your-face tutorial pop-ups, GPS quest trackers, complex HUDs, full-screen menus, etc.

For a taste of what properly immersive RPGs are play the Gothic series.

"Other games of this era, and even a lot of modern games, are content to resort to more video-gamey designs that remind you you're playing a video game. Gothic 1 and 2 took the extra steps to ensure that everything was as immersive as they could possibly be." [1]

Videos that give a good overview of the immersive design of the games: [2], [3].

Guide on what exactly to play:

1. Gothic 1

2. Gothic 2 Gold Edition

3. The chronicles of Myrtana Archolos - a fan-made total conversion mod for Gothic 2 that follows in the spirit of the past two games. It's as high in quality as a professional production would be. Seriously. See [4] for a preliminary review.

All are available on Steam.

[1]: https://youtu.be/_V6tdH6YRy8

[2]: https://youtu.be/qvyzjFfxiXo?t=194 (this part refers directly to immersion, for more context you can start from the beginning)

[3]: https://youtu.be/_V6tdH6YRy8?t=597 (whole video is good, but the most relevant parts start here)

[4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2F4-2i9gGY

(not associated with the particular youtuber in any way, his content just happens to be good)

“Their minds ranged far and wide inside dreamscapes Daphne wove for them, for she knew all the secrets of that art, and many of the techniques of false-life sculpting, and story-crafting, which, to her, were trite and worn, to him, were new; and she found pleasure in his delight.”

--The Phoenix Exultant by John C. Wright

I was thinking about this quite a bit replaying ocarina of time. It's now very apparent to me that a lot of the world is giant sheets of 2d textures, with some scattered doors as 3d objects, like castletown. Then I started to notice some things that were... surprisingly good? My favorite: Link had IK foot placement! His feet would land on individual steps as you went up stairs.

Yeah, it's a sad fact that I've realized myself as well. No matter how good a game is, I'll never be able to experience again that magical feeling when I played Pokemon for the first time on the GB.

But you can experience it with new things!

If you approach stuff with positivity, openness and wonder you'll have a blast! This is my current experience with learning Go, having learned Python previously.

I don my explorer's hat and force myself to live into the text, subject or code (Herder's Einfühlung). Personally it makes the journey so much more entertaining than merely as a tools to an end.

I mean yes, the joy is still there when trying new things for the first time, I would be lying if I said otherwise. But it's just not the same. You know that feeling of total absorption/encompassment when you played your favorite game for the first time in your childhood? There's nothing like it. I went to dinner thinking about the game. I went to sleep thinking about the game. I went to school thinking about the game. The joy when my starter Pokemon evolved was indescribable. The game was the only thing that was on my mind. What's even more amazing is that I'm not a native English speaker, and I did not understand a single word in the game back then, yet somehow that did not impede me at all, in fact I think it even added to the joy of exploration.

I think it's something you have to work harder to find, and perhaps find less often as you grow up.

It's joyful to obsess over stuff; to try and get better; to try and understand.

There's two things, IMO, that get in the way as an adult:

* The crush of ordinary responsibility can not leave enough time for exploration and wonder.

* Related: We just get used to following a routine and not completely losing ourselves in something new. Maybe we tell ourselves we can't get good at new things anymore like we used to.

Revisiting old stuff, like Monkey Island, is fun; but it's not nearly as intense as something new. I'm looking forward to it and it will be entertaining to share with my family. It's been awhile since I've found this kind of pure fun and intensity in video games, but I'm sure it'll happen again.

I've had this feeling not so long ago when playing horizon zero dawn. I don't know why but I loved this game so much that it reminded me of the feeling of playing secret of mana as a kid.

I did play Life is Strange when I was 36. The story wasn’t so great, but the atmosphere? Just great.

One of the few games I've played in my 30s. I really liked the story actually, until the final chapter where Max is navigating some weird Dreamscape that goes on a bit too long.

I played MI1 for the first time last year and I can tell you it's not just nostalgia. It's just a freaking great game.

I'd agree with you completely if I hadn't played Breadth of the Wild. It somehow managed to bring that child back and front again.

Oh! I am glad to see the atmosphere aspect of MI emphasized! I played these games as a preteen, and much of the humor went above my head (non-native speaker). It was the atmosphere, the setting and the characters that made me love the games, especially the first one. I spent so much time on Melee Island; the eerie forest, the voodoo lady, the jail, the docks... these places and people made a tremendous impression on young me.

EDIT: Oh, and how can I forget the music!

Fortunately Michael Land has made the music for every Monkey Island game yet, and is also onboard to do the music for this one

I don't think the atmosphere is quite there in this new one, here's Melee Island from The Verge's screenshot. The art doesn't sit well with me: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dQbYIfWFh5WfWwby87FoHyI8uog=...

In the modern version the town is no longer twinkling and glittering. It appears smaller due to the large buildings. The strong purple tints (especially on the horizon) gives the scene an uneasy feeling. And the lookout point is no longer forlorn, it appears close to the town due to the way the whole island appears downscaled because of the larger town elements. We have also lost the reflection of the lights in the water, making the island appear to sit on the ground rather than in the waves

I'm still going to play the game and hope to love it. But the art style seems to feature very strong colours and intense gradients. When animated the motion seems too fluid, with characters deforming like in a Flash animation

The old art feels, in a way, more realistic.

One underappreciated aspect of low definition graphics is that your mind can interpolate the visuals, and you feel more immersed. (suspension is disbelief has a positive effect here)

When graphics become HD or closer to photorealistic they are starting to trigger an uncanny valley effect.

> One underappreciated aspect of low definition graphics is that your mind can interpolate the visuals

Yes, what Scott McCloud calls "closure" in Understanding Comics.

That said, my mind also interpolates the newer version of Melee Island, because it's cartoony and "abstract" enough, and so I also like it.

> Yes, what Scott McCloud calls "closure" in Understanding Comics.

Exactly! I forgot about reading this book, but it was very insightful.

Interesting. I think the old picture linked above have a dreamy atmosphere because of the jagged edges which create a foggy / twinkling effect

That! Monkey Island was all about the atmosphere. It brought the caribbean to my living room.

I could never say part 3 doesn't have atmosphere. The music, the art, the overall feel was different, but great on it's own.

On the other hand, the story, and the subtle humor from 1 and 2 was lacking or different.

In MI1, there was a sense of questing as Guybrush Threepwood goes through training to become a swordfighter (the classic training trope like in Rocky and in martial arts movies), plus there was also the will-they-won't-they romantic tension with Elaine. MI1 was an origin story so it had the advantage of being able to use these well-loved tropes. Stan was a great character.

MI2 took it a little further with the unresolved tension with LeChuck.

MI3 didn't really have that same sense of tension or urgency because Guybrush is already in a relationship with Elaine and he's just trying to break the curse. MI3 (or CMI) was a great game, but it just didn't leave you wanting more.

If you look at the screenshots and art released, they are definitely at least attempting an atmospheric feeling. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. For me the thing I really love most is the MIDI music. Occasionally I'll put on the score from MI2, Loom or another game and it brings me back.

> What was special about the first two Monkey Island games (at least for me) was the atmosphere.

Same! First of all I LOVED the “eternal night” in some locations.

It was unexplained and unmentioned (though an easy headcanon might be that everything you do there takes place during a single night) but it has a huge effect on the aesthetic feel of the game world.

The other thing that evoked the sense of adventure was the balance between the Civilized and Unexplored parts of its world, a common theme in pirate settings.

> with part 3 the magic was mostly gone unfortunately.

Curse certainly felt a bit “off” to me (I wasn’t aware that it wasn’t made by the same people but I could feel it) but it still had some charm, except for the abrupt final episode.

> Same! First of all I LOVED the “eternal night” in some locations.

Playing it as a tween, it evoked this feeling of one of those rare special nights where I got to stay up way past my bedtime on a warm summer night at an amusement park, fair, circus, camping, etc. (Where the twilight and temperature is perfect after the day's brightness and the heat has broken.)

The first MI is almost not believable that it is an EGA game. Then Loom came out and looks even better. These games pushed the limits of what graphical hardware of the time was capable of.

Without having context of when this was made and that it was part of a game, this looks like a fairly generic picture of a mountain. You regularly see images with far more atmosphere on r/PixelArt.

I think a big part of it as well is the music that comes in when you're first presented with this scene.

I genuinely think this game (which I didn't discover until years later following its release) has the impact that it has for me because of the brilliant soundtrack.

That music on tinny computer speakers (if you didn't have Soundblasters at the time) was something else: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IOL4q5tDDQ

I think it was here on HN that I previously read a comment breaking down how the PC speaker could only play one tone at a time, but the team managed to simulate two overlapping melodies

While that sounds like an amazing technical accomplishment, I can tell you that discovering it on an amiga with a hifi separates amp and speakers[1] was definitely better. I was very lucky, but I'm not sorry! ;) The soundtrack is sensational.

1. To be fair, the speakers were intended for the back shelf of a car. It was cobbled together from castoffs found in the loft...

But you lost the amazing moment when you install a Soundblaster (compatible) card in the PC, start Monkey Island and you are blown away by the new musical experience, after months of PC speaker.

It was clearly something better for me, and I think I played it around ‘94, it was better than what was on tv or video. And it was why we were playing video games, because with each one they kept getting better.

you'd be hard pushed to recreate that in mspaint!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com