plastic can be (almost) infinitely recycled for industrial use, it's food use that has limited recyclability.
also: Macs are very hard to upgrade (sometimes it's impossible to) and become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk.
My experiences different, I'd still be rocking a 2014 MBP had it not suffered massive liquid damage. All Macs and MacBooks I or relatives have crossed or are going to cross the decade threshold with aplomb.
I too own a couple of 10+ years old Mac laptops.
They are perfect as doorstop.
Once the RAM is soldiered or one of the main components gets out of production it's all about luck
while it is simply a matter of repairing it or upgrading it in the case of an actually repairable "plastic" one.
8GB of RAM is plenty fine for me. I just don't have a thousand tabs opened (I never do anyway, whatever the RAM amount), which is mostly the usual problem but the state of the web platform and its runaway resource usage is another debate entirely.
> one of the main components gets out of production it's all about luck
You make it sound like it never happens with non-Apple hardware. With the flurry of devices that are put out every other month by a lot of hardware vendors, "out of production" often means a couple years, barely enough to cover warranty claims, and then they coast on stocked spare parts.
I am in the habit of trying to revive legacy hardware when people throw it away, and have a closet full of hardware barely older than 2-3 years that could not be repaired because of a broken part that should have been perfectly repairable were the part be available. Usually these get fixed by having two broken machines and doing a transplant, not by sourcing original parts from manufacturers. Batteries are loads of fun, even just one year after a product release it might be impossible to source an original one, either because they have additional import legislation so they're outright not distributed overseas, or because they're deemed consumables when they're field-swappable, and thus often not covered by warranties (and thus vendors don't make any effort stocking them), so you're left with buying third-party ones of obscure origins which can be either duds or fire hazards waiting to happen with a non-negligible probability. At least Apple puts forward some hard numbers so I know what I can rely on†.
Hell, just last year I restored a PoS system that had 1GB of RAM and a 8GB SSD, put some lightweight Linux on it, recovered a couple of ESC/POS thermal printers, hacked some bridge in Ruby between the PoS software and the printers, and the device chugged along for a solid year before finally giving up for good, which saved the store owner from shelling out stupid amounts of money and helped them bootstrap their business.
With hundreds of machines from various vendors that went through my hands I feel I have enough statistically significant data to extract trends and draw my own conclusions. These don't support that Apple devices become e-waste in short order, but I respect that your experience and opinion might be different, even though I don't adhere to it.
Great example. macOS Monterey minimum requirements: "MacBook Pro: Early 2015 and newer"
So Apple forces that device to be e-trash, regardless of your desires.
Uhh, nope. NVidia and Broadcom all over.
00:00.0 Host bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Host Bridge (rev b1)
00:00.1 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
00:03.0 ISA bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 LPC Bridge (rev b3)
00:03.1 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
00:03.2 SMBus: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 SMBus (rev b1)
00:03.3 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
00:03.4 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
00:03.5 Co-processor: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Co-processor (rev b1)
00:04.0 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 OHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev b1)
00:04.1 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 EHCI USB 2.0 Controller (rev b1)
00:06.0 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 OHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev b1)
00:06.1 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 EHCI USB 2.0 Controller (rev b1)
00:08.0 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)
00:09.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Bridge (rev b1)
00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Ethernet (rev b1)
00:0b.0 SATA controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 AHCI Controller (rev b1)
00:0c.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
00:15.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
00:16.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV730/M96-XT [Mobility Radeon HD 4670]
02:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV710/730 HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 4000 series]
03:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR928X Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
04:00.0 PCI bridge: Texas Instruments XIO2213A/B/XIO2221 PCI Express to PCI Bridge [Cheetah Express] (rev 01)
05:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Texas Instruments XIO2213A/B/XIO2221 IEEE-1394b OHCI Controller [Cheetah Express] (rev 01)
This is a 'Late 2009 27" iMac', running the internal display as well as an external 1920*1200 24" monitor through a DP->HDMI cable. Everything works, including the silly IR remote control thingy (tested using the IR blaster on my phone).
When they go out of security support these machines work quite well under Linux (as I could test myself, I recycled a bunch already).
Plastic doesn't grow on trees either. Its production has huge impacts on the environment.
Aluminum is highly and easily recyclable. In fact Apple makes their MacBook enclosures from 100% recycled aluminum. No other computer manufacturer can make the same claim regarding the production of their plastic body notebooks.
The idea that plastic can be infinitely recycled is just that: an idea. The infrastructure for recycling plastic is far more complex than recycling aluminum, as well as essentially non-existent.
Apple computers have a history of having high resell values and long lifespans. You can see the evidence of that just by looking at eBay. And when they do eventually get tossed out that aluminum body can actually be recycled, where the same claim for plastic bodied notebooks cannot be factually made.
I seriously believe it's time we start considering Apple a religion.
Technology company HP Inc., Palo Alto, California, has a product and service portfolio that includes personal computer systems, printers and 3D printing solutions. Increasingly, the company’s products are manufactured using recycled-content plastics
All the ocean-bound plastic that HP incorporates into its products is PET. The company says its HP Elite c1030 Chromebook Enterprise laptop is the world’s first Chromebook made with ocean-bound plastic. The device also is made from 75 percent recycled aluminum and features a keyboard made from 50 percent recycled plastics
HP is using ocean-bound plastics in its products, with the Dragonfly is made of 80% recycled materials
HP has just launched new ENVY notebooks that offer creators the freedom. The ENVY laptops are also made from recycled aluminum
In 2018, we began implementing the use of an innovative bio-based packaging made from bamboo and sugar cane fiber. The material is not only 100 percent biodegradable, it is lighter than previous packaging and its strength characteristics enable design improvements that reduce overall package size.
This new packaging was used to to ship memory cards and one of our ThinkPad models. With lighter packaging materials and package weight, the result was 6.7 percent less transportation CO2 emissions. We are therefore looking to expand the use of this bamboo and sugar cane fiber packaging innovation.
Over a decade ago, Lenovo began using 100% recycled and recyclable packaging material. Instead of using polystyrene packaging, we now encourage the use of molded pulp, fiber and low-density polyethylene (LDPE).
Lenovo unveiled their latest range of gizmos at CES 2022 a short while back, including the new ThinkPad Z Series of laptops featuring eco-friendly designs. The ThinkPad series is made from 75% recycled materials, the Z13 and Z16 are made from 100% recycled aluminium
just to name a couple of them.
Every brand out there is greenwashing its name...
Anyway
Apple has committed to be 100% carbon neutral in terms of its supply chain and products *by 2030*
Apple's entire macbook line, both Air and Pro, have bodies made from 100% recycled aluminum.
The examples you provided, it's 50% recycled plastics or 75% recycled aluminum or 80% over-all or if 100% recycled aluminum is used it's only for some of their product lines.
Given all of that: I never said other companies aren't trying, and I'm not dismissing their efforts. I just said they can't make the same claim. Additionally, when it comes to recycling those plastic bodies the infrastructure just isn't there like it is for aluminum.
> Every brand out there is greenwashing its name...
I'm glad they're doing it, even if it's just to improve their brand image and not out of actual concern for the environment.
> I seriously believe it's time we start considering Apple a religion.
:roll_eyes:
Saying Macs become "e-trash in a couple years" is similarly way way off the mark. Expected life for many Macs is a decade or more. I have one that is from 1984 that still works perfectly. After that, much of the machine is fully recyclable, and the case is 100% recyclable.
I too own a Commodore 64 from 1983, an Atari ST, an Amiga 500 and a 286 Amstrad PC.
> Saying Macs become "e-trash in a couple years" is similarly way way off the mark
They are forced out of the market by the company upgrade policies.
What is the value of an Intel Mac now that Mx(s) are out?
And the animus against standard OS upgrades is not particularly convincing, to me at least.
The value of Intel Macs is holding up just fine. I can go sell my 2019 Intel MBP and still get a lot more out of it than a PC laptop of similar vintage. This has of course been historically true of Macs, as well, as even a cursory investigation will reveal.