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Comment by sitic | Hacker News Reader

Reminds me that I should finish reading The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ministry_for_the_Future

I read it and I thought it was pretty dumb. Much much too optimistic for my understanding of the situation.

My main gripe with it was that it leaves the reader thinking that climate change can be combatted with sensibility and reason. The idea that our global elites will come to their senses if we shove a few incidents in front of their faces goes against the fundamental narcissistic arc western civilization is currently enamored with.

The world he presents is predominantly western and China barely gets a mention. While he does start off in India most of it takes place in Switzerland, a country that doesn't really matter all that much for the climate. He's American, so he probably thinks China is inherently a bad place where stupid things happen. But I don't know why one wouldn't center a fictitious future of climate change there, and worse leave it out entirely. It's civilization is ascending while western white European culture is obviously descending.

I don't want my criticism of the book to lie entirely on Robinson's euro-centrism, but it is my primary complaint. Not because this makes the book racist, and I'm not accusing Robinson of that, but because it shows how Robinson's limited view of the world shapes his fiction. He gives us a white saviour story primarily taking place in Switzerland and yet claims to be speaking to the world. It's just dumb.

China is left out because the government behavior there for the past few decades has been to deprioritize climate change entirely. Until they take some kind of initiative in leading the world in reducing CO2, European countries are likely where this innovation will be. Right now both the US and China are the problem, this has nothing to do with “white”.

I am in Shenzhen, and have been told by friends that it is impossible to get a license for gas powered cars. There is a strong push for all cars to be electric, electric bikes are everywhere, and all buses are electric. And China is making a push towards renewables and to reduce their dependence on coal, if only to combat air pollution.

Maybe they don't talk about climate change as the reason perse, but it is wrong to say they are doing nothing, and in fact I would argue they have done much more than I see in my native country (the U.S.).

> and in fact I would argue they have done much more than I see in my native country (the U.S.).

Is it something about discussing China that triggers people to engage in whataboutism for the US? My post that you just replied to literally just roasted the US for being shitty when it comes to climate change and your defense of China is “it might be better than the US because it’s hard to get a gas car”. GTFO with that crap.

I suspect China was left out because it already had an important role in his previous novel "Red Moon".

Europeans are not the good guys in this. Yes we care about the environment but only IN OUR OWN BACKYARD. All the evil and polluting industries have been given a bag of cash to move.

> China is left out because the government behavior there for the past few decades has been to deprioritize climate change entirely.

China is left out because their per capita income is lower than romania.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

And their per capita CO2 emission is nothing. Most of china's emissions are to provide manufacturing goods to europe.

> European countries are likely where this innovation will be.

Europe isn't at the forefront of anything anymore.

> Right now both the US and China are the problem, this has nothing to do with “white”.

No. The problem is europe. And climate change is most definitely a white problem. It was a result of europe's decision to colonize, genocide and industrialize. On a per capita basis, europe at near the top of C02 emissions. You don't get to live a 1st world lifestyle without causing environmental harm.

The idea that china or india or africa has to fix a problem caused by europe is a non-starter.

> He's American, so he probably thinks China is inherently a bad place where stupid things happen.

Without speaking to the book’s Eurocentrism, I can confirm this is not true. KSR has said in interviews he believes China is the world’s best hope at mitigating climate change because the United States is too politically decayed to accomplish anything at that scale.

>It's civilization is ascending while western white European culture is obviously descending.

China's had a below-replacement birthrate since 1991. It's TFR was 1.7 last year, 132nd in the world, putting it next to demographic powerhouses like Latvia and Denmark.

This is an ascendant civilization?

Maybe Switzerland because entities like Glencore are (nominally) based there?

Mining and such, you know?

Or Nestlé, making billions with water:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nestle-ceo-water-not-human...

IDK, make up your own mind.

From someone who hasn't read it, can you say why?

That's the second time I've seen it referenced here. Cheers.

An Indian heat wave is the premise of the story.

I stopped reading it after a couple of chapters.

Yeah it gets monotonous after a while, but the first third of the book or so is very good.

I couldn't finish it either but the beginning was good!

Mostly because it starts with a Indian heat wave that kills 20 million people in a couple of days. Beyond that its a load of gibberish glorifying eco terrorism and full blown woke politics. Basically its written to be the extreme left's wet dream of breakdown in global order and bringing to heel the 'global elite'. It is difficult to move past the heavy pro communist overtones and the whole narrative lurches into many tangents that have no relation to the plot.

The subject chosen is really interesting but the way the novel was written (fiction mixed with facts) and some chapters where the author directly communicates with the reader is really weird. I wouldn't be surprised if this is their first novel and reads like a middle school essay of some kind.

>I wouldn't be surprised if this is their first novel and reads like a middle school essay of some kind.

It's Kim Stanley Robinson...

My bad. I didn't lookup the Author name. I am a fan of his Mars trilogy. I don't know why the writing style is so crappy in this one. I tried pushing forward but its just hard. Its actually a lot similar to the Red faction in the Mars trilogy. That rabid faction never made any sense to me in those novels and the same pre assumed moral superiority didn't make much sense in the new novel.

I prized the trilogy for its vivid descriptions of the Mars in the beginning to how it was transformed using technology. The pace was good and never boring. Not so in this latest one - some characters and their feelings are given so much space in the book without moving the plot - like that character who survived the heat wave - by the 3rd of the book, you would wish he didn't - just chapters and chapters of PTSD descriptions.

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