That's true, but what about "Keep doing 'It' but at our company for half the hours and double the salary"?
Then you could take the extra time and money and work on your +1 and +2.
"Keep doing what you're doing but half the hours and double the salary" is something I would be tempted by, but it would be with the idea that I'm focusing on something other than developing my career.
It would be tempting, even given the stake I just placed in the ground:[1] But 1. astronomically few companies will offer to double my comp at this late point in my career and 2. Nobody in tech offers part time work but with full benefits…I’d have to be a contractor and find clients and fund my own healthcare and retirement (yuck). It’s at best an theoretical exercise.
Consultant/Contractor might be the closest.
But it does help to inform people the right way to proceed if 800k in 20hrs a week is their goal :)
It does take a very specific additional skill set to build up a network of clients and have the patience for that to turn into something where you're regularly booked, but if money is the number one thing you want to optimize for, it's something you should investigate.
* Accountants doing company liquidations
* Trial lawyers
* Performance artists
Others I cannot think of. Pay rates over $1,000/hr are surprisingly common. Many of the recipients work fewer hours as a result
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-11-04/jim-si...
> He started at age 40 with no experience:
> It took him a while—he launched his fund in 1978 and it didn’t really click until about 1990—but he absolutely achieved his dream of making money without doing anything.
And, he had lots of experience with math - he was insanely great at it. And then he took it and applied it.
Thales was an all around great philosopher though, known to be one of the "seven sages" of ancient Athens. Amongst other feats, he managed to measure the height of the Great Pyramid of Gizeh when nobody else at the time could.
Like doing programming problems is fun for a bit, but doing work that actually does something, even if it's simpler in complexity is more satisfying. IMO of course.
I think the recruiters could be pitching better if they went with, do 'it' here and think about what +1 could be and when you figure what that could be, pitch it to us. This of course assumes the organization sees IT as a value multiplier and not a cost center / plumbing job.
Even the same total comp and benefits but half the hours would be good. If I could do one week on and one week off or two weeks on and two weeks off that would be awesome.
However, a lot of times the "want to do it forever" part could be a sign that the candidates doesn't want to learn anything new, which is indeed a very bad sign.
On the other hand there are people who want to want to keep doing tasks so they get a deeper understanding of the domain, as mentioned elsewhere in the comments... and you can't afford to say no to those people.
While that is true for a lot of jobs, there are also a fair number of employers that are perfectly content to have an employee that does job X at their company for as long as they are of working age. In the software world it pretty much follows from the fact that the largest chunk of development jobs out there are just CRUD apps and processes that feed them. Many companies do the same things with largely the same software for years and years and years. As long as an employee is getting the work done, many of those employers are thrilled to have a long-term employee doing the same tasks they've been doing for years.
You can stick with the same technology and language, sure, but the frameworks and the language will evolve under you. Tools evolve (Git? Github? CI?). Processes evolve (Scrum?). Requirements change (HTTPS? Accessibility?) There are gonna be lots of changes coming from the outside.
Heck, when I think of it, frameworks targeted at CRUD apps were probably the things that have changed the most during my career. I have a few friends doing stuff with C++ and they joke about how much tech in the web/enterprise bubble changes.
Companies often (but not always) want someone to just do ‘It’ with minimal extra management effort.
This is because every companies success is generally gated by the available extra intelligence and decision making ability at every level (really every organization). The more management work put in, and the more ongoing thinking required to produce unit X (whatever it is for the company), the less competitive they are.
Most companies of course aren’t great at this, but as long as their competitors aren’t much better (and/or other factors add more ‘competitiveness’), it still works out.
Most dumb and value destroying things happening anywhere is because someone who is in the position to make a decision doesn’t have the mental bandwidth to make a good decision, or someone with the bandwidth to make that decision isn’t trusted to do so because of lack of consistent mental bandwidth by someone else to supervise, select, or police folks like them.
For individuals, like you note, the incentives are often the opposite - to grow, take on individual risk, etc.
And most individuals who are not actually entrusted with the scope and scale that would challenge them HAVE extra mental capacity (albeit perhaps not the experience or whatever to actually be successful, but they won’t know that) because they aren’t subjected to those loads generally.
Not to discount nepotism (usually caused by trust issues/difficulty with owners managing non family members), corruption (usually caused by those in control not seeing how to produce value while following the rules), etc.
Frank Slootman (snowflake CEO) has some quote that is ~ "give people the opportunity of a lifetime if you want to hire amazing people". There are obviously downsides, but anecdotally smart + hyper engaged is hard to beat, even if that person hasn't done X.
I've managed to do "it+0.5" at a couple places. Most companies are only interested in doing "it" by the book and miss out on so much. At my current place I developed a couple +1 concepts that handle issues automatically, gave presentations with relatively little code needed, got a "hey that's cool" but was never asked to actually integrate those into the product or have someone closer to it integrate it. They're very happy to just do "it", never mind that we have issues that may well stem from not taking "it" to the next level.
Someone who has done “it” in another environment will have scar tissue formed from issues they ran into doing “it” there.
When you hire them to do “it” here, they will avoid things that didn’t work there and try to do things that did - but here is not there and maybe the situation aligns differently and what didn’t work there would work here.
Like, maybe they ran into an issue with doing “it” using approach A because it required a more skilled operations team than they had there. But maybe here you have a better ops team and approach A would be much easier.
These days, if you want to do that, you'll either need to have your company acquired, or buy the job you're looking for.
People who are really good at things generally thrive on challenge, because without that you don't persist long enough to get good. For many, me included, no reasonable amount of money will get them through doing years of something where they aren't growing.
1. Salary will plateau eventually. I know early in your career it doesn't seem like it will, but trust me: It will. I don't care what company you are in, or how good you are, "Fourth Senior Software Engineer From The Left" is never going to be making $1M/yr. (Not that that should necessarily be your goal, but it illustrates that you will plateau at some point.)
2. When you keep job hopping for more money but no change in level, you risk gaining "1 year of experience 20 times" instead of 20 years of experience. You're sacrificing long term career growth for short term salary bumps. I did this for years and ended up shooting myself in the foot long-term. My college friends, who instead played the Title / Ladder Climbing game, are all much better off than I now. They're all job-secure VPs, SVPs, and CxO's in their companies vs. me who still doesn't even have any direct reports, and is one of many interchangeable worker bees.
No more doing that for me. I'll only accept, at a minimum, a level jump at this point.
Or to you, is "management" simply the next level beyond individual contributorship? I won't work for an employer that doesn't plan for career advancement in BOTH tracks - management is great, but for every one of you who sees career advancement as managing others, there's someone like me who wants to stay the hell away from that while still finding room to advance my career as an individual contributor.
Any thoughts?
I love the concept of having VP-level IC “wizard” roles who don’t have to manage, but have never seen it in practice.
Generally, there's wayyy less of the IC roles, which essentially means that people who want advancement are often gonna end up on the management track.
As a Staff Engineer I'm just a really engineering focused manager "lite" if you will, (in so many ways, maybe I'm not doing enough justice here, but its how it feels day to day).
I like it, because I'm managing the architecture side of things and still involved in engineering decisions I care about, but I have both direct people working with me that I'm accountable for, as well as a 2nd level of accountability for the entire organization. I still get to commit code and do exploratory research, which is nice, but its not the highest percentage of work I do. So much of it is overseeing the implementation details of other engineers, providing guidance to both engineering as an org, or individual engineers, or being involved in product roadmap so that our architecture evolves flexibly enough to meet where we want to go, writing documentation and diagrams, giving technical presentations etc.
All told, at some point, you have to be a manager, even if its not a direct "manager" role, per se.
I've been doing "It" (shipping software -which is quite different from "writing" software) for my entire adult life.
Basically, if you want to actually ship a superb-Quality native iOS/iPadOS/WatchOS/MacOS app, in an astonishingly short period of time, I'm a good person to talk to.
What I have learned, is that very few people seem to want to actually ship software. Instead, companies become obsessed with "coding culture," and "process" (which can mean many different things). As it comes time to start preparing for it to go out the door, all kinds of roadblocks start piling up. It's crazy.
I was "frozen out" of the industry, because of my age, which really pissed me off, but that has turned out to be a great thing. It's been a real joy, writing my own stuff. Out of necessity, I have to keep the scope humble, but that's fine.
Many companies must build out rigorous standards, and checks and balances in order to deal with regression to the mean.
If what you're saying is true you're multiple standard deviations above the normal engineer, and scaling you is non-trivial. Bob martin has said the population of coders doubles every 5 yrs meaning at any given time 1/2 of the engineers have less than 5 years experience. When you need something that would take 1000 of you, which might not even exist on the planet, they instead have to build a system that takes 10k of those 5yr and less engineers -- and have the highest quality outliers leveraged though standards, automation, building engineering culture etc.
I get that a lot. It's absurdly easy to verify (I point to all my work), but folks would rather sling mud, than take a peek.
Doesn't matter. I'm not looking for work anymore.
In my time, I have worked with many people that make me look like a piker. I suspect they get chased out, too.
It really doesn't matter to me if it's true about you or not, we can still discuss the issue of designing for talent several standard deviations above the mean vs one that falls within, say, [0-1] std deviation above the mean.
And I feel you on process. I got involved in process because I wanted to quickly solve user problems, and then keep on solving user problems. But so much of the process-industrial complex is not focused on that. E.g., the SAFe® process is the effective opposite of what early Agile pioneers were aiming at. Its major function is to give managers and executives a sense of control almost without regard to how achievable that is or what it costs in terms of productivity and lost opportunity.
In perticular, you're not working in the same semantic framework as GP, who was talking about "It+1", "It+2" and so on
It has been my experience that actually delivering, working, high-Quality, supported, documented software (regardless of what the software does), within a reasonable period of time, is beyond the capabilities of many corporations.
I suspect that some folks make money by convincing others to invest, then hightailing it, before the chickens come home to roost, as opposed to actually selling a finished and supported product to end-users. In that case, looking like a "shipper," is much more important than actually being one.
But that's just one "It" on the continuum. It could also be grant-writing, selling, managing, singing, shredding guitar, racing minibikes, whatever.
In any given case, there's always some threshold of what an "effective It" is. It may not be a clear-cut line. For example, research is very "fuzzy," and a researcher that can do "It," may be excellent at failure, because their job is to poke holes in theories.
In fact, if the company is all about getting A-round funding, then folding up the card tables, and moving on, someone that "looks like a shipper" could be an effective "It."
There's a larger population out there that having mastered "It," will happily do exactly the same thing for the next 10 years.