Comment by tkgally | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tkgally | Hacker News Reader

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One minority data point here.

I teach at a university in Japan. I have been teaching my classes exclusively online—live using Zoom—for more than two years, and overall the experience has been better than with the in-person classes I taught for many years before. The class discussions have been meatier and more focused than in person, and the students have been turning in better papers.

I recognize that the results would be different in other situations. I am fortunate to teach small classes of motivated students with good study skills. And as one of the “very online crowd,” I might have been able to adapt to online teaching better than some others.

But the big revolution of online learning is the opportunity it gives for people to take part in interactive classes regardless of their location. Yesterday I taught a graduate seminar with fourteen students, eight in Japan and six in China, including two in lockdown in Shanghai. Everyone was able to take part actively. Starting next Monday, my other graduate class will shift from afternoon to morning Japan time so that a student who is in Mexico and unable to return to Japan can take part in real time. This past Monday, one of the other students in that class was in COVID quarantine near Narita Airport but was able to participate fully in class.

Until recently, it was assumed that the only way to conduct interactive classes in real time was for the teacher and students to all be in the same physical location. If students couldn’t get to campus for whatever reason, they were excluded. Online education opens up educational opportunities for many people who couldn’t participate before.

Please tell me your secret. Is there anything you do differently, relative to in person? Or do you just end up with a selected sample of super motivated students?

This in particular:

> The class discussions have been meatier...

is a literal miracle.

I think it might be this:

> I am fortunate to teach small classes of motivated students with good study skills.

I teach an honors and a regular section of one of my classes. The honors students (who are more serious and motivated in general) definitely are affected less.

If you are teaching grad students that is also not going to be representative of the overall population. Those guys are definitely in the right tail of motivation.

> Is there anything you do differently, relative to in person?

I call on students more systematically rather than just waiting for volunteers to raise their hand. When I taught in-person, it was usually the same few students who spoke up a lot, while others never said anything. Now everyone contributes, making for an overall better discussion.

With my larger online classes, I will sometimes throw out a discussion question and give the students five or ten minutes to write up their responses, which they submit through a Google Form. I then display those responses on screen and respond to them. Having the time to write up their responses, and knowing that their responses might be shared with the entire class, seems to make students respond more thoughtfully than if they were just making an ephemeral spoken comment.

I sometimes ask all students to submit questions to me through an online form, too. In in-person classes, many students seem embarrassed to ask questions in front of their peers. That doesn’t apply to online forms. (When I display the students’ questions on the screen, I don’t show the students’ names.)

Some of these ideas come from workshops I attended years ago on “active learning” and could be implemented in the classroom as well. But I began using them only after I started teaching online.

> If you are teaching grad students that is also not going to be representative of the overall population. Those guys are definitely in the right tail of motivation.

You’re absolutely correct.

Thanks for explaining! (I'm a different person)

I can understand why this gives a better learning experience and results (for most students). Hmm, also depends on the subject -- they're saying and discussing things? Eg social sciences? Whilst in maths, maybe there is less to discuss and talk about, and the positive effects you're seeing wouldn't be there?

Seems to me all this can be done in real life too -- but requires more discipline, since the "default", that the more talkative students speak out loud when they want, is what comes naturally? Rather than writing questions and thoughts on paper and handing in, and you read them.

Would be interesting to try IRL with pencils and paper :-) I'm not a teacher though.

Edit: what do you teach? / What do the students study

I teach courses on various topics related to language and second-language education. Recent course titles include Ideology and Language Education, Ethics and Language Education, Language and Society, and Topics in Second-Language Education. I start the semester with only a general outline of each course, and the specific topics covered week by week are decided based on where our discussions go. Nearly all of the students are themselves multilingual and many have studied linguistics or related subjects, so they have the interests, experience, and backgrounds that enable them to contribute productively to the discussions. I learn as much from them as they do from me.

You’re right that the same method wouldn’t work with some other subjects and some other types of students.

I did take a mathematics class as an undergraduate, though, in which our teacher—Paul Halmos—had us work together in small groups on problems throughout the semester, with guidance from him only when we got stuck. That could presumably be done online, too.

Ok :-)

> I learn as much from them as they do from me.

Sounds like a nice job :-)

Paul Halmos, cool to have had such a person as one's teacher. (Was that in the US? I wonder how he was like, as a teacher and person)

I seem to have bragged before about studying with Paul Halmos:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

He seemed a bit formal and intimidating at first, but he turned out to be a warm, considerate person. He and his wife had me and several other students over to their house for dinner a couple of times, and he enjoyed talking with us about whatever youthful nerdish topics we were interested in.

I was about twenty years old then. I just realized that he was in his early sixties, a couple of years younger than I am now.

Thanks! Seems like a lovely teacher and person.

Also, interesting to read about the Moore method (I found vid the Algolia link). If I'll ever do some teaching stuff, I'll try Halmos' flavor of that method :-)

> Is there anything you do differently, relative to in person?

Online, everything needs to be done differently from in-person:

- Lecture is a waste of time. Pre-made stuff will be higher-quality than anything you can deliver, and save a lot of time

- Grading should be automated as much as possible. Immediate feedback is powerful for students, as is being able to move at their own pace, have targeted remediation, etc.

- Automating stuff leaves waaaaay more time for 1:1 interaction, reviewing student work, etc.

- Audio isn't the only way to interact. Students can use chat, embedded surveys, forums, etc. There are many ways for having interactive engagement impossible in person.

- You should make heavy use of peer teaching: Breakout rooms, structured peer review, etc.

Online during COVID19 crashed-and-burned since people took in-person and tried to run it over Zoom. Good online can be better than in-person.

Oh, and details matter. Everyone should have a headset. Mute is generally bad. You should have good whiteboarding tools. Everyone should have a pen tablet ($40) or copy stand ($100). Etc.

NONE of this happened at most schools during COVID.

You nailed it.

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