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Comment by panick21_ | Hacker News Reader

That literally the exact opposite of people I know.

Pretty much everybody I know loves SpaceX and the technology and doesn't give a shit about US politics or the SEC or whatever other crap people in the US get worked up about.

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But yet, that other stuff matters much more than some dick measuring contest about going to Mars. Musk has shown time and time again that his ideals of climate change or whatever are not genuine. He wants to get to play with cool toys, make bold but undeliverable promises, and get as much attention as possible. And yet, people look up to him as if he’s some saint bestowed upon us. I truly feel letting a billionaire like him take one of the biggest megaphones in the world private as a personal playground is one of the worst things that could have happened. And it’s all because he wants to say what he wants to say when he wants to say it, even though he has a history of bullying and trying to shut up people who disagree with him.

> letting a billionaire like him take one of the biggest megaphones in the world private as a personal playground is one of the worst things that could have happened

I don't really have an opinion about mr Musk or his intentions, but I truly fail to see any downside with this deal. Either he does in fact make the twitter platform a generally more positive/useful/pleasant/... experience, or twitter's function will eventually be filled by other apps, maybe even new ideas.

Musk does not have a history of acting like a grownup and has used Twitter to defame, bully, argue, get involved in foreign wars, manipulate markets, etc. all because of greed, ego, or because someone disagreed with him. I sincerely don’t understand how him taking over Twitter can be viewed as a good thing. I could be here all day listing the people he has publicly insulted on Twitter. He has attacked people, often experts in their field like Noam Chomsky or the cave rescuer, because they held positions that disagreed with his usually amateur and attention hogging takes.

For one, Trump seems to finally be receding into the background, and I can guarantee he gets his account back when Musk takes over. That alone is enough to view this as a net negative.

> don’t understand how him taking over Twitter can be viewed as a good thing

Worst case, he runs it into the ground and we live in a world without Twitter. Win win.

I don’t think that’s the worst case.

> don’t think that’s the worst case

I have a tough time imagining the other worst case not prompting regulation.

Maybe it overthrows our political system! I don’t know, there are certainly some politicians who command from Twitter and will be hurt or helped by Musk. (Probably, invariably, helped.) But that seems less likely than Congress creating a rule book and regulator for social media.

> or twitter's function will eventually be filled by other apps, maybe even new ideas

Why would it? People have been complaining about facebook/twitter/etc for ages and competitors haven't turned out to be less harmful. Why is the idea that Musk forces his values into Twitter and that this makes the platform worse not a possibility?

Successful social media is positive, useful, and pleasant?

> has shown time and time again that his ideals of climate change or whatever are not genuine

Who cares. He delivers.

I’ll take the guy who delivers, with possible ulterior motives, over someone who really cares, but uselessly. The latter describes most of our leadership to date on EVs and Mars.

Would it be nice if the genius came without the bullshit? Sure. Am I convinced those are inseparable? No. Is this relevant if you don’t care about EVs or Mars? No. But a lot of people do, and for us, he’s worth the tradeoff.

Pretty nonsense take a I have to say.

You act like Musk is some kind of genocide dictator. Oh my god, he fights with the SEC therefore he must be shot in the head.

> Musk has shown time and time again that his ideals of climate change or whatever are not genuine.

Literally based on what? He has been consistent for 20+ years. Given tons of talks and has literally changed one of the most conservatives industry in the world to a much, much greener industry.

Why did he do Tesla? Do you think he thought 'What a great businesses idea?'.

> He wants to get to play with cool toys, make bold but undeliverable promises, and get as much attention as possible.

When he started SpaceX he was not famous. You can go back to inteview where he was a mostly unknown (at least by people who don't follow Silicon Vally startups). And he already talks about all those things.

The idea that he build a rocket company because he wants to 'play with toys' is just nonsense.

And even if it was, so what? SpaceX achieved what it did, no matter the reason.

> And yet, people look up to him as if he’s some saint bestowed upon us.

He is a successful entrepreneur and engineer. I defend him from people who just make up a bunch of nonsense because they don't like him as a person.

> I truly feel letting a billionaire like him take one of the biggest megaphones in the world private as a personal playground is one of the worst things that could have happened.

Sound like you lived a really privileged life if you think that.

And he already did use it as a megaphone, that is literally what Twitter is.

What exactly are you suggesting would happen?

> And it’s all because he wants to say what he wants to say when he wants to say it, even though he has a history of bullying and trying to shut up people who disagree with him.

Twitter not being owned by him has not prevented him from saying anything. The SEC doesn't care who owns twitter.

To add to this, almost every conversation I have (I am in the US so that may be part of it) includes "Elon is cringe but..." and likely followed by SpaceX is doing fantastic work.

He's an interesting guy who seems straight out of a science fiction show. Can't nerds like me just think it's kind of cool that someone is actively trying to expand humanity to multiple planets?

My read is people find reasons to hate him due to ego, they see someone running like 6+ successful companies when their lives aren't going so well, and go looking for all the moralistic things he must be doing wrong.

>> My read is people find reasons to hate him due to ego, they see someone running like 6+ successful companies when their lives aren't going so well, and go looking for all the moralistic things he must be doing wrong.

He’s doing cool things, it’s impossible to deny that (especially with SpaceX). But you only need to look at his Bill Gates related tweets this weekend to see why people think he’s an asshole and it’s nothing to do with jealousy. He acts like an edgy 14 year old and it’s really cringey.

And that is totally fine.

I really don't care if people think he is an ass.

But what happens is that people think he is an ass and then they adopt this culture of downplaying everything and making shit up.

'Rockets landed in the 70s', 'He is just a marketing guy', 'Tesla is fake company that is doomed' blablabla

I will never disagree with people who don't like Musk, only people who then start to make dumb arguments about him.

I think when you care enough to say those things - and frankly when you care that people are saying those things - you care too much about the person. Focus on the cool techy stuff rather than Musk.

But people often bring this up when talking about EV or Space to prove their points. Or bring those things up in discussion such as now about Twitter.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I will be the first to give him a lot of credit for the companies he has started. Especially Space and Tesla. There is no doubt that both of those have pushed forward both industries in series ways.

I don't think it is all just ego or jealousy. He has made some questionable comments in the past. He keeps going on that this particular purchase is about free speech. He consciously has chosen to be very public with some of his more questionable opinions (especially regarding Covid) on his Twitter.

Yes I am very glad that he has started SpaceX and Tesla. I despise the criticisms of billionaires "Wasting" their money on Space. But that does not absolve him of criticisms of him personally outside of those companies.

Musk has some interesting goals and amazing accomplishments. But I'd also argue he isn't necessarily genuine or correct about electric vehicles/batteries helping the environment. Now a ton of resources and effort get allocated to it and potentially away from things that might be more helpful.

What other theortical things could save humanity doesn't matter. Unless you can make the argument that these things CREDIBLY WOULD HAPPEN without Tesla or EVs then its pointless.

I would much prefer nuclear over wind/solar/battery. But I know if I argue against wind/solar nuclear isn't magically gone happen.

So its fine if you want to argue that US shoud invest 100+ billion in public transport or bikes or whatever. Those things are not gone happen just because EVs don't happen. You are probably right, but EVs are not preventing that from happening.

EV are absoulty 100% a huge improvement over other cars and its not close. Even outside of the environment it would have eventually happened, they are just better cars.

I mean the fact is he is this centuries entrepreneur as Schumpeter defines it. If you compare what he has done versus the rest of his class he's mopped the floor. So in terms of accomplishments he is in his own realm.

I agree I do have concerns that things may be changing and his original goals of humanitarian goals (EVs, solar, storage, space travel) are now getting caught up with straight power plays (twitter). I wonder if he has been caught by the twitter validation loop.

> doesn't give a shit about US politics or the SEC or whatever other crap people in the US get worked up about

They give a shit about a lifestyle brand they are emotionally invested in. It's no different than buying a Gucci handbag or a Bulgari bracelet. They believe purchasing the right brands will give them the social status they crave.

The parent comment is why we need someone to start a movement making social media algorithms more transparent. The person you are responding to is misinformed about Tesla fans because he has been the victim of a social media algorithm generated echo chamber. He isn't unique, we all are victims of echo chambers and filter bubbles to some degree. The only way to fix that is to allow people to control their own feeds and disable echo chambers if they wish to.

Yes, the moment I heard Musk say 'open-source the algorithm' I was onboard, although that needs to be watched carefully. The algorithmic structure itself is one thing and the kind of data that is fed to it to train it is another. In particular, how it learns what is an 'authoritative source' and what isn't needs to be made clear.

As I said, the world is big.

But even among the people I know who work at SpaceX, the draw was "I want to work with Musk" rather than "I want to work on rockets."

Yes but that is because in a Musk company you actually get to build rockets, blow them and iterate quickly.

As Eric Berger states in his book. Engineers don't want to spend 10 years being responsible for the quality control of a single screw on the F-35 program.

At SpaceX you are producing rocket faster then anywhere and you always develop next generation technology.

That is why engineers want to work there.

seconded.

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