You can literally use that argument for everything.
"Why don't gay people just shut up and stay in the closest for the benefit of societal cohesion? So egoistic."
"People who are afraid of covid are so self centered and would rather shut down entire societies than to self sacrifice a bit!! Why should we accomodate the hypochondriacs"
And as a muslim your comment, ironically enough, reminds me of how some neocons excused discriminating against Muslims. "Wow I mean there are terrorists out there and we should care about "muh freedomz" for Muslims? After 9/11? Well discriminating and targeting all Muslims is just a small sacrifice for the greater good of our society, it's just the rational thing to do."
There's absolutely no merit to that type of argument. obviously anyone fighting for "mah freedum" as you call it will always be ridiculed and not taken seriously by everyone, by definition. The only thing different and unique this time is the honestly troubling trend of mocking and belittling the concept of freedom or rights in general, just to "own the other side". I'm sure that normalizing such a dangerous rhetoric won't turn against you eventually.
Well, if we're going to go reaching for the fallacy labels -- that's a pretty textbook appeal to extremes. Discrimination against any portion of the population is reprehensible. But the big moral challenge is determining what exactly constitutes discrimination. Where is the line between just punishment under the law, and discrimination?
Society's laws are designed to protect the interests of everyone in that society (without discrimination!) from those around them that would hurt them, whether through malice or negligence. Implicit in those laws is the idea that you seem to be protesting: that in certain situations, Person A knows better than Person B what's good for Person B. Or, as it may be, what liberties to withhold from Person B to protect others from them. That's prison. And as fucked up and inhumane as I think the American prison system is, I don't know whether it's really possible to have a society without _some_ sort of way of withholding certain rights from people for the protection of others.
And yes, that line of thinking absolutely can (and does) slide down the hellchute into totalitarianism. Avoiding either extreme of that spectrum is the challenge of living in a democracy (or what masquerades as one these days).
Obviously my comment was an appeal to extremes (though honestly, the part about discriminating against muslim was literally was a common talking point). But that was exactly to show how smug and dismissive the argument was.
[citation needed]
Not that I have that wisdom myself. I only think I might arrive at that conclusion eventually.
Many people who are individualists advocate for self-sacrifice and service as virtues, freely chosen.
Virtue under threat of punishment or retaliation is not virtue at all.
I'm not a conservative, myself, but it's kinda crazy to watch from a distance. Especially in the current context of watching Ukrainians fighting on the battlefield, Poles giving up half their homes, etc. to refugees from Ukraine, etc.
EDIT: also, it isn't restricted to the USA. It has been on full display here in Canada, and in Europe as well.
And before you say that it was nothing out of the ordinary, remember that even during the Oka Crisis the federal government did not take such extreme measures. That was a multi week armed standoff with hundreds of armed combatants, killed police officers, led to a very damaging blockade around montreal. Yet, no charter was suspended and the federal government did not do everything to antagonize the Mohawks. Pretty crazy compared to what happened in ottawa.
So there is definitely a reason to be worried, and saying that it's worse somewhere else is irrelevant. Or do we just dismiss any social justice movement too since wow, they are complaining about trivial stuff compared to the sacrifice ukrainians are making?
Listen, I'm 48 years old and have been protesting since I was a teen. I've been teargassed, pepper sprayed, charged by horse mounted police, faced a line of riot cops. Mostly after said protest went, maybe, I dunno, one hour past what its permitted time was or beyond some fenced area, or encroached near where a gov't figure was. I wasn't at it, but for kicks some time, google "g20 kettling toronto" and see what happened to protesters peacefully sitting in the middle of an intersection in Toronto in a vaguely festive atmosphere when the police decide to go completely apeshit and actually really violate people's charter rights.
These anti-vax "protesters" blocked two international border crossings, harassed people in downtown Ottawa, blasted horns, kept stores closed, displayed hate speech and flags, threatened public officials, kept illegal firearms, the list goes on. For weeks. Many weeks. 24/7.
"supend the charter" -- much more extreme measures have been taken against myself and others I've protested with -- they just didn't bother to "suspend the charter" officially before doing it. They just did it. Threw people in detention, searched their crap illegally, whatever they felt like doing. Because that's what police do to actual protesters, as opposed to wanky authoritarian far-right neo-fascists that they publicly sympathize with.
They didn't suspend the charter in the Oka crisis because they didn't need to. They just tear gassed, used concussion grenades, arrested and beat people (Ronaldo Casalpro) in captivity. Or used bayonets on them (Waneek Horn-Miller).
The charter had to be "suspended" and governments were forced to intervene because the police refused to do their job... a job they are far far too eager to exercise when it's people they don't agree with.
Charter is a piece of paper.
And yeah sure the charter is just a piece of paper, but again I'm not sure what's your point. You are basically arguing that we might as well not even try. Remember that that piece of paper will be used against you and I'm not sure how far that "it's just a piece of paper!" Argument will go with a judge. The Charter is extremely weak, but this is still an unprecedented reaction in the post war western world. Over a bunch of truckers and 0 violence.
Also, you are repeating literal fake news. The guy with the nazi flag lasted for a few minutes before getting kicked out by the rest of the protesters. Again, if you participated in the g20 protests and cannot see how easy it is to plant agitators or use one off events to justify discrediting a whole protest...
My point here is that no matter what's your stance on the vaccine (and I'm extremely pro vaccine, I probably went in person with more than a dozen of my friends and co-workers to get them vaccinated if they were afraid/hesitant), the rhetoric around the trucker rally is extremely dangerous. It is setting a precedent, and next time we get a first nation protest/blockade, or a BLM protest (both of which I usually support) under a more conservative government, let's hope that the charter won't be seen as just a piece of paper again.
It probably seems like America is getting divided more starkly, but to outsiders its just more of the same from a country that had a civil war over slavery. It waxes and wanes but it never really goes away.
Cryptocurrencies make their inevitable appearance in the thread! :]
And in other quarters, they believe we have permanent, irreconcilable differences based on race, sex, and sexuality making the whole idea of "out of many, one" unthinkable.
Maybe for you, not for me. I live life to serve myself above all else. It so happens that helping people I care about also serves me, because it makes me happy. But "for the greater good" is an incredibly toxic, near cult-like mentality that should absolutely not be encouraged without nuance.