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Comment by Broken_Hippo | Hacker News Reader

Imagine you are young, and you've went out to buy your first phone only to find out that you can't actually use it without buying a second thing.

I'm going to guess that apple's products warn about the danger in using non-apple products - risks of damage and all that. Not wanting to ruin your new, expensive phone, you play it safe and just buy the matching charger, even though you feel like you should have been able to use the phone with everything that was in the box. For some years, Apple has warned about the dangers of third party accessories possibly ruining your stuff, after all. And I'm guessing the apple store employees aren't exactly going to recommend you buy other brand's stuff.

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I actually had almost that same experience back in the 90's when I bought my first gaming console with my own money. I bought a PS1, and Final Fantasy 8 with all the money I had save up for months to get, only to find out when I got home that I needed a non-included memory card to actually save my game. My disappointment was immeasurable.

Now technically, you're not required to save the game, and this don't need a memory card in the strictest sense, but the reality is, the console was near useless to me without it.

What was the longest you ever left it on for to “save” progress?

I've been an Android user since my first smart phone, but when AT&T dropped support for my last phone I decided to just give it a shot and get the new iPhone SE. I have a 12 year old MacBook that I got after an old job retired it but I never really bought into the Mac environment, so I thought maybe this could sell me. So I get the package, I open it up, ooh ahh, pull out the phone, pull out the USB-C cable, uh oh, and then lift up the cardboard liner annnnd nothing. The phone was charged, my girlfriend had cables and I could get a power supply overnighted, but I really sat there for a minute just thinking "man, fuck this." Not a good start.

> I'm going to guess that apple's products warn about the danger in using non-apple products - risks of damage and all that.

Not that anyone checks this (and the UX isn't great because you can't see category listings directly), but Apple has a searchable database to see if your charger or whatever is approved:

https://mfi.apple.com/account/accessory-search

MFi doesn't apply to USB or USB-C chargers. See the first section of the FAQ: https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html

Yeah it doesn't seem to be comprehensive. There are certainly USB-C chargers in the database, but maybe only the ones that are also sold with lightning cables?

> but maybe only the ones that are also sold with lightning cables

Correct.

I remember a bit of a ruined Christmas when I got some toy that required batteries, with no batteries in the house and the next two days being public holidays.

I had the exact same experience as a young owner of a cool new remote controlled car. However, I think this example proves the point that Apple isn't the first or only company to exclude "required" components.

My RC car didn't have batteries and they were most certainly required. Should the RC company include batteries? Does it come down to "expendable" items, like batteries, are exempt from this rule?

Not sure about toys, but all electronic devices with remote control I ever bought had the batteries for the remote included. Same for all wall-mountable items, they always include some cheapo wall plugs and screws which most people throw away immediately (I usually keep them, although I never use them). Not including a charger does reduce the amount of electronic waste, but of course, if you buy an expensive phone (and even entry-level iPhones are expensive for the average Brazilian income) and the package doesn't even include everything you need to get started, I imagine you might feel cheated...

Do you have a discernible point? Young (and old) people have access to the internet to get informed on things like this.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Sure, the internet exists. Sure, you'll find non-apple accessories.

What you'll also find are horror stories about cheaply made bits and information from Apple stating that you need to use approved accessories lest you void your warranty and/or ruin your device. Even though you'll find positive stuff, you'll be left with "ruin my device or use an apple product".

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