Comment by lbotos | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lbotos | Hacker News Reader

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FTA:

> It was to determine how well the HRVs

How many of those homes tested installed a proper mechanical ventilation system?

Anyone that is serious about air tightness will tell you that you need to manage the air transfer with an HRV or an ERV so it's filtered, controlled, and avoids these problems.

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I found the study you are quoting:

https://pureadmin.qub.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/31281945/C...

Results from the occupant interviews suggest inadequate knowledge of the ventilation system, with all Code 4 homes stating ‘not sure’ when asked about various features of the MVHR system, including the current settings, changing of filters, boost mode function and location of controls.

Knowledge of the MVHR system was considerably lacking in Code 4 homes. All households stated that they did not know where the controls for the system were located, or how to change the settings.

They asked people who moved into "airtight" social housing if they understood how the systems worked to keep the air moving and people said no.

No wonder they had worse air quality...

It's a risk when building homes for the general public, things like ventilation need to be idiot-proof. Maybe a big red warning if the system isn't working properly? Mandatory inspections?

The solution is sensored operations. The air system needs to measure the amount of CO2 and PM2.5 in each room and adjust automatically to maintain fresh air everywhere.

"Turned off" should be considered a dangerous state you can't leave the system in - in fact, if due to some failure the system ends up turned off, it should continuously alarm or trip the electrical supply.

Just like it's really hard to turn off the drivers airbag in a car.

Sensors help, but this is just a fan, and it needs to be on all the time in my experience.

This sounds like teflon, approved because it is organically safe until it reaches a certain temp, even for a second, then it releases toxic gas, and becomss permanatly harmful to cook on.

The approval logic was, people will:

- always be very careful cooking, and never ever let the heat get too high

- people will learn about teflon, and keep watch

- people care

Meanwhile, stories abound of people's birds dying from toxic gas (they are more susceptible, and die first).

Note that if a bird dies, and you don't, that doesn't mean you were not injured. Or your family.

If you're giving anything to a consumer, assume they know nothing, that they cannot follow directions, won't care even if they understand, etc, etc.

Because that's how it is.

This is validated, proven, over and over and over again.

I love the idea of airtight, but think it is like lead in pipes. If we build like this, kids ... with their developing brains and bodies, will pay the price.

And 40 years later, we'll be astonished at the absurdity of it all, the lost potential, wasted lives. Just like lead pipes, paint, etc.

>and becomss permanatly harmful to cook on.

Source?

Burnt teflon flakes off into food.

Grab a pan and wipe a tissue around the inside a few times... See the dirt that comes off... That's probably carbon and teflon deposits.

My understanding is that teflon itself is inert, but the combustion/precursor products aren't[1]. Given that, "burnt teflon flakes" should only be an issue if you burnt the pan while cooking but still ate the food.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Ecotox...

You burn your pan. Teflon off gasses. The gas is released in air.

The same offgassed chemical is now under the teflon, between pan and teflon, as well as in any cracks, or porous areas of the teflon, more likely now, as teflon has changed its chemical struture.

It's where the gas came from, yes?

So, now you have a pan more likely to crack and chip, with deadly chemicals waiting.

The logic you are employing, is similar to the logic which got a deadly substance, teflon, approved.

OK under some circumstances, but not thinking of the entire picture.

The price? Your health.

The health of all in your house, breathing toxic gas, and eating toxins, for which the young are more susceptible to.

This is classic "what's wrong with the world" stuff. For an extremely mild convenience, use a deadly solution at a whim. Teflon.

People would rather have their food covered in toxic stuff, than use a little oil. Or buy an iron pan, and season it correctly.

The problem is not that people are idiots, the problem is nobody knows or cares anout what is happening in a rented apartment.

This apartment is owned by a company registered in a tax heaven, he can never be reached and never replies.

The management company does not know anything about the house, how the heating work, how the ventilation works - you only find out on the builsing whats app group from the one guy in the whole building who is a homeowner.

Half the people in this building had a broken ventillation system (the circuitboard died every year, 'luxury' apartments, yey!) and they did not know. This apartment had a broken ventillation system when i moved in.

The previous apartment had a ventillation system too, also was broken, landlord lives in country but has no clue what it is and took 6 months to fix it.

Why boilers have been standard for some time, and everyone knows how to use them, the ventillation systems are all different and most peolle have never seen one before.

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