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> They cancel stuff so fast it’s not worth getting into.

This is honestly the key for me. From Vulture's piece on the cancellation of Babysitters' Club (a good series, by the way):

"As far as I can tell, everything Netflix does is based on how it’s driving subscriber growth.

The truth is that when your show does very well in North America, as ours does, as far as Netflix is concerned, pretty much everybody who’s going to have Netflix [in North America] has it. They’re looking to drive subscriber growth in other parts of the world where this IP doesn’t have much recognition."

https://www.vulture.com/article/why-the-baby-sitters-club-wa...

If you're a subscriber, fuck you. Give us your money, shut the fuck up, you aren't getting any series you care about. You don't count for anything.

Hence most series get one or two seasons, get cut of with no warning - a shitty way to treat the people working on them - leaving unfinished stories for viewers, because being a subscriber makes your opinion and interests worthless.

This is the HUGE paradox problem with subscriber systems, once you're a subscriber they have NO reason to cater to you beyond trying to prevent you from cancelling.

Whereas if you are buying individual pieces (for example purchasing episodes from Prime or buying comic books, etc) they need to keep you hooked.

Apple TV + is so underrated and under-talked about it's not even funny.

Netflix still produces some interesting shows and I especially like the anime that they are bringing on like Thermae Roma (sp?) that was recently released. I don't think I'd ever see that on Apple TV + which is a big disappointment.

But this is why I also don't invest in Netflix. Missed the boat on growing to get here.

The Apple TV+ catalog is not very deep, but the quality of what they have is really good. It was easier to find something really good to watch on Apple TV+ than Netflix, and I think that's just a consequence of them having far fewer shows, but generally very high quality shows. Their catalog is so small that I'm out of things to watch.

I never would have signed up for them if a subscription hadn't come free with my MBP. Now that the machine is a year old, the free subscription has expired, I cancelled it. I'll pick it up again in a few months when there are new seasons of what I watch.

The problem with Apple TV+ is that you need an apple device or an Android/Google TV that is granted permission to install the Apple TV+ app by Apple. My Android TV, despite being able to run apps for Netflix, Prime Video, HBO, etc., cannot run the Apple TV+ app because... reasons.

Very untrue. My Samsung Smart TV from 2017 has an Apple TV+ app available. My parent's Xfinity cable box has it as well. It's not as available as Netflix (I remember watching on my Nintendo DS) but it's certainly not limited to Android devices.

You can browse their list of supported devices from LG, Samsung, Panasonic, Amazon, Playstation, Xbox, Sony, Vizio, Roku. And then any devices without the app that support AirPlay 2 will work from your iPhone or iPad.

https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-app/devices/

My Roku tv has apple tv+ on it? Lots of TVs are Roku based these days.

> Apple TV + is so underrated and under-talked about it's not even funny.

Is Apple TV different in the US than Canada? ‘Cause either I am using it completely incorrectly or they don’t have very much content up here…

They only have original content. There isn’t too much, but the average quality is fantastic.

They’re doing the HBO thing but are only 2 years old.

Foundation, Severance, Ted Lasso are some of the most acclaimed shows in recent years.And they secured the Best Picture Oscar in their second year, which Netflix still hasn't managed.

Same question from me. I have been meaning to cancel it because the content is just lacking. What am I missing?

Don't think you're "missing" anything.

I signed up for awhile and watched stuff like Ted Lasso and Foundation and it was good and then I cancelled.

I'll probably sign up again next winter to watch whatever new content they've got (and rewatch Lasso) and then probably cancel again.

It isn't a marriage, you can bounce in and out of it. Play the field.

I mean it takes a while to build up a content library right?

Anime is the only reason I haven't cancelled Netflix yet. They added several Gundam shows out of nowhere. then they added Cowboy Bebop. Several other notable titles in there as well. The collection is still incomplete though, and as great as these shows are I'm getting tired of rewatching them.

It's not their IP so one has to wonder how long it's gonna take before we see the obnoxious "last day to watch on Netflix" message.

My issue with Anime on Netflix is that the subs are often trash (non-issue if you watch dubbed versions of shows, the Cowboy Bebop dub is excellent for instance). It's sometimes sad that even though the show is on Netflix, I end up using fan-subbed versions instead since a lot more care gets put into such releases

Except Unicorn (which I believe to have been there before massive addition), I think the reason Gundam saw an addition is because they signed a distribution deal for Hathaway's Flash, and since HF refers to many events in original UC continuity, people would wanted some background on characters appearing in it (notably Hathaway, and maybe Quess, Amuro & Char).

I didn't subscribe to Netflix so I don't sure what Anime are being offered right now. With the recent deals (HF, Zero's Tea Time), I would have missed/skipped them, even though they are the series I liked. Maybe I will subscribe it once all episodes are shown so that I can watch it and forget it, but I won't subscribe to it long term.

They really should negotiate a “pay to stay” or something where customers can “buy the episodes” like on Prime, and continue to have access to them.

> Apple TV + is so underrated and under-talked about it's not even funny.

I think it's mostly because they compete with HBO and IMHO aren't really there just yet, but definitely getting there.

I feel like HBO's quality trajectory is downward ever since ATT bought it and fired all the old HBO bosses that built their unique library. And now the HBO bosses are Discovery channel bosses, known for shitty "reality" shows about obese people and people with 10 kids or some other nonsense.

Hopefully Apple TV+ can re-create some of that magic.

HBO Max makes it easy to see which are the "HBO" shows, and which are the "Max" shows. Ignore the max ones and the quality is still there.

Station Eleven was great

As was Hacks, which really could have been a proper HBO show instead of a Max Original.

Give Euphoria a try

I seriously don't understand their strategy. While all their partners are pulling out to put their content on their own streaming services (and have been for years), Netflix is cancelling good shows left and right. It's like they never learned from Apple's long-tail App Store strategy. You have to cover even niche interests if you want to maintain a dominant position in a market like this. If there is ever a situation where somebody wants to watch something like x and you don't have anything good to cater to that interest, you've failed and you're voluntarily giving up marketshare. Maybe not now, but down the road as your competitors catch up.

I can’t remember the last time I watched something good on Netflix. Most of their “good” shows are good for a season or two, then seem to stall out. With the recent price increase, I dropped from the HD plan to the SD plan, as my wife mostly watches on her phone. So far so good.

There are some I like that are still on. But they’re getting cancelled because they’ve run long enough that either the creator is done or they’re not drawing necessary numbers and don’t get renewed.

But nothing new is replacing them. So over time Netflix is becoming irrelevant to me.

I’ve subscribed since early 2000s pretty much non-stop. But I’m about to pull the trigger.

Ozark, Bridgerton, Outlander, Peaky Blinders, Inventing Anna, You, Outer Banks, Riverdale, The Crown, Money Heist, Emily in Paris...

I think Netflix has honed in on the "have something for everyone" strategy. Just about everyone has a show they like on Netflix, but for most people it seems like there's only a few. On your list I only liked Ozark and Money heist, plus Bojack. Meanwhile HBO creates a great show every year, and actually renews their stuff. Disney is a necessity for kids. Apple TV+ costs 25% as much. It really feels like netflix has diversified far too much, and now people are realizing that there are cheaper options that just make the stuff they like.

Squid Game and Tiger King (which has a second season right now BTW) were huge. Stranger Things was huge and keeps promising (but not delivering) a fourth season.

Or the show might be good and they cancel it after the first season...

I think you completely misunderstand what they're trying to do. What you read as a proliferation of crap is really trying to find a 'big hit' in lots of small niches. Some niche hits will become crossover success stories, and draw people into new genres, etc. But others will quietly be classics in their small niche, often for being the first serious effort.

Of course, Sturgeon's Law is still in effect, so 90% of everything will be crap. But producing non-crap for smaller audiences builds loyalty, which is worth something in the subscriber model.

Or at least that's my read of their strategy. There's a real discovery problem that comes with it that I don't think they've solved. But overall it's an interesting approach.

No, I understand that. It’s the “throw it all the wall and see what sticks” approach. Network TV does it every year.

But Netflix isn’t trying as much stuff as network TV. They seem to be trying as much as all of cable.

The problem is at a certain point you ruin all discovery. There is no way to find something new through serendipity. It’s gone next week from the promotion so they can promote 8 other new shows.

But that means even if you find it and it’s good it won’t get and audience and will be cancelled. Unless it gets big from something outside Netflix (social media with Squid Game or some other popular but not mega hit shows) it’s a goner.

So… why even look at all that stuff? It’s not worth it.

My biggest gripe isn’t that they produce a ton of content that largely doesn’t interest me - it’s that they prioritize it in the interface and force me to wade through all of it in order to get to what I want.

They also cancel stuff so regularly, it's hard to justify investing time into a show even if you like it because half the time it's getting canceled after a season or two with a shitty cliffhanger as the last episode.

When I look back at a lot of my favorite TV shows, many of them took a while to hit their stride. Even universally liked TV shows will have rough starts where people will go, "Yea, you can just sorta skip season 1."

Over time you just get used to thinking, "oh, this is a Netflix original on Season 1, I'll wait and see if they make more content" which probably fucks with the viewer numbers and they cancel it.

There was also this element of "We have all this data so we have an unfair advantage over all these studios with pitch meetings." And it seems as if they're just another studio who isn't really in a better position to predict breakout hits than anyone else.

Of course, they also license content but that's just about spreading around the dollars from a bag of money.

Personally, I find Netflix to be worth the subscription at the moment. But there are a ton of other streaming services and I'm not going to subscribe to them all. And, while I have gone in and out of Netflix' DVD service, the back catalog has sufficiently rotted I don't find it worthwhile.

We love Great British Bake Off, but the proliferation of horrible knockoffs on Netflix is embarrassing. Just to name one example. They feel crass and paint-by-numbers. I appreciate it when these services take a risk on something weird, but this seems like the exact opposite.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with their strategy. The problem is that when 80% of the stuff they create is content that there is no chance I'd enjoy I'd prefer to just go to a streaming service that focuses on the content I want to consume. Netflix's strategy works when they have a tech advantage, but now that there are other players in the game Netflix is too expensive for the amount of content they create for each person to enjoy. They only way to justify it is to split between like 5-10 people imo, which they are trying to crack down on.

Disclaimer: don't have Netflix and never plan to, but watched some of their productions, like everyone.

No, it's objectively crap. I hate romcoms or horror movies but I can distinguish between the quality that was put in making them (objective) vs how much they affect me (subjective). And even nostalgia aside, they produce only crap. Nearly all Netflix production is low quality.

As for the "many niches": well they all are sub-niches of the same small niche(s) because I don't see any show or movie that is not either targeted for teens, women or some (usually the same) ethnic group.

> They refuse to integrate with Apple TV’s “Watch Now”

They also refuse (or are unable) to add support on Apple TV for their interactive titles. I doubt anyone really cares, but it surprises me, and not in a good way, when I bump into it.

I got a year free of Apple TV+ with a new iphone, and I don't quite like it.

Used it to watch Ted Lasso and Foundation, and the browser experience was _terrible_ for discovery and had lots of bugs and counterintuitive things. And it was Windows+Chrome, so no excuse for having such a terrible interface.

Now I don't even care about it, and find it easier to just open netflix or youtube or something else rather than to waste time and brain cells dealing with their crap.

I’ve really enjoyed the number of shows they have. I’ve never tried the browser. I always watch on my TV, and they have apps for basically every smart TV

The UX is also pretty terrible. It takes like five button presses to resume what you were watching when it should take one, and the Android app infuriatingly maintains its own brightness slider so if you watch Netflix a lot you're constantly running into the screen being too dim or too bright.

A lot of people are complaining about the content, but what's so bad about the new content, relative to the other services?

My biggest gripe is that've cancelled a lot of things without seeing them through to completion. Prime and SyFy have done this a lot too.

> Average quality has taken an absolute nose dive

Sure, but that happened years ago.

I don't think most people care about 20$ vs 10$ for a monthly subscription. For people who do care, they just pirate for 0$.

You don't think people care about $120 a year? The average American can't afford a surprise $500 expense. Netflix is in most households in America. These aren't just white collar workers with money to spare. I think people are extremely price sensitive when it comes to entertainment.

I do think most people don't care about 120$ a year per household, yes.

The people who do care - they will pirate anyway. You don't even have to pirate - aren't there just websites that play pirated content like it's youtube?

Also, isn't youtube just free? Not having Netflix is not like not having a TV, it's more like not having the fancy cable channels package.

> I do think most people don't care about 120$ a year per household, yes.

I really, really think you're wrong. The median household income in $67,521. That's not even close to "$120 isn't a big deal" territory, and half of households have less. More than half of American households have netflix, poor-ish people aren't just pirating the content. Smart TVs and chromecast like devices make pirating more difficult. Many people don't want to mess around with casting stuff to their TV from their computer.

It’s possible people spending $120 a year on bad TV is why they can’t afford a surprise $500 expense …

You should think more about this before sharing it in public.