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Comment by themanmaran | Hacker News Reader

> commonly used and not considered non-inclusive by any Australian I know

That argument has been used to defend all sorts of terms, some worse than others. The example you choose "guys" as gender neutral is also common in US english. But being common does not mean it is correct (racial and homophobic slurs were also common for a long time).

- Group of women === "girls"

- Group of men === "guys"

- Group of women with one guy === "guys"

- Group of men with one girl === "guys"

The "guys" as gender neutral is clearly the result of patriarical society. But does that make the word _harmful_? Hard to say. I lean towards "no". But I'm not in the adversely selected group.

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a group of women can be called guys. happens all the time.

your chart should be

- Group of women === "girls","guys"

- Group of men === "boys","guys"

- Group of women with one guy === "guys"

- Group of men with one girl === "guys"

you could call a group of women either a gendered collective noun or "guys". for a mixed group, you can't use a gendered collective noun. obviously.

What happened to the word gals in your list?

It's an American term (and as far as I know, an American regional term), that also seems to have had a decline in the US as people here mostly encounter it in older US movies?

The way languages are used - common usage is almost certainly correct. Correct is whatever is agreed upon by conversation participants. Correct in one group ain't necessarily so in another.

Uhhhh now calling a group of adult women "girls" is legitimately offensive, even in Australia.

Yeah, it's belittling from what I heard. I don't really fully understand anymore since the golden rule has long gone out the window (I wouldn't be offended if someone approached me and me friends and said "Hey, boys". Maybe be a bit uncommon but I wouldn't think much of it).

My hometown in Ireland has "Well, boy" as a colloqial greeting people use between each other. We had neither the empire of other european countries to bring black people here against their will, or the economic appeal to attract them willingly, so this is a term that evolved in a world relatively devoid of black people.

But, bring that to the US and greeting a black american with "boy" has a very different connotation. And there's totally valid reasons to do with local historical conditions that means that this is inappropriate to use in that context.

Does that make it wrong for people in my home town to greet each other like that? I don't think so. I think it's very uninclusive for Google to impose an american context where there is none.

The golden rule is a good starting point. As an abrasive person who doesn’t mind when people fight or argue at me, I tried to live by the golden rule and realized people want to be treated how they want to be treated, not how my autistic ass wanted to be treated.

In the same way the term “boy” is never really used insultingly, but people use “girly” or “stop being a little girl” as an insult all the time. So it makes sense that you wouldn’t be offended by the similar term, but some women may not like girls so much. I think this is reasonable and treating people how they want to be treated is the ultimate goal.

There’s a movie with Natalie Portman where she’s offended by a boy calling her a lady. She thinks she’s being called old.

There’s also what I’ll call the Jeremy Clarkson ooo hello ladies, reserved for fancy done up groups of ladies in nice dresses and hats for example from the country woman’s association.

Distinct from the oooo hello ladies of a group of prostitutes making their grand entrance from the back of a hummer I recently saw in the breaking bad movie.

Boys I’ve seen used a lot referring to groups of men in the examples of dogging the boys at a construction yard, pulled the boys for an scv rush in sc2, hello boyyys for Roy and HG implying something rude.

> The "guys" as gender neutral is clearly the result of patriarical society.

No it isn't, there is nothing clear about this nor is it true in any way that actually means anything.

How do you know how many women there are? Are you a biologist?

I'm sorry, I can't ever imagine approaching a group of women/girls and saying "Hey girls/women, xyz".

I will always without a doubt start off by saying "Hey guys, xyz".

Absolutely incredible, it's like you've never spoken to a group of women before. Go call them girls and see what they think.

I hope “Hey Ladies” is still ok, since that’s what I’ve been using for decades.

There is no issues of inclusivines in our country. Why US always want to push their culture on other groups and countries.

We have no issues regrading inclusivity. Most people are very polite and dont have issue. Please (Google, Big Tech) stop pushing your agendas on other countries.

What country is that? I'm pretty sure it will have issues of inclusivity, you just don't see them because you're not affected by it.

I'm guessing the UK. And I agree.

I guess it's maybe because we've had different experiences. For example, I could see me saying "Hey ladies" to the group of girls that I went to school with. I couldn't imagine addressing women on the street or in work with that phrase unless I developed at the very minimum a friendly relationship with all of them.

But that's just me, you are totally correct I've seen lots of people do it without any complaints what so ever.

"Hey everyone..." "Hey there..." "Hey..."

I was responding to the statement that a group of women are to be referred to as "girls" colloquially and not "guys" and that this is somehow, rather amazingly, a patriarchal structure.

Equally, I can not say "hey" and just say what I want to say, so what? I can also say "hello" instead of "hey". Your point proves nothing in this context, though I'm sure you like to think it did.

Note that responses are, well, responses, hence there is the handy "parent" feature. But thanks for illuminating the world of possibilities that speech holds!

Furthermore:

"Hey everyone" - Too formal, I want don't want it to sound like an instruction to the group, just who cares to listen in that group of women

"Hey there" - Might be mistaken for a specific person if I happen to glance at them, I want to refer to the whole group (if they want to hear it)

"Hey" - See above.

I'll stick with "Hey guys", thanks!

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