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Comment by inamberclad | Hacker News Reader

Uber as a business is a massive loss, but consumers still _chose_ Uber over taxis because the process of getting and riding in a car is a million times more transparent than a taxi ever was. You can see what car and what driver are picking you up, what route they're going to take, and how much it will cost. Taxis failed because they failed to modernize.

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One of the nice things about ridesharing is that, at least in some cities, taxis have started modernizing. I've been using Curb in Philadelphia, and it's significantly cheaper when Uber/Lyft have surge pricing. Otherwise, it's usually a little more expensive, but the drivers are more reliable so it's sometimes worth paying a few extra bucks.

I've had Uber drivers accept my ride, then drive away from me, refuse calls, and not cancel the ride (expecting me to do it, so they avoid getting dinged, I guess) on multiple occasions. One time I ended up walking to my destination and saw the driver cancelled it after 2 hours. Uber, of course, doesn't have a way to report this behavior.

The UI still isn't as perfect as Uber's, but it's good enough for me. Pretty similar to Uber without any bells or whistles. It wouldn't be convenient for me to hail taxis without an app.

That is really interesting/odd behavior. What is the gain from this?

The driver is most likely on multiple apps, and is doing rides there while the Uber one stays open so he can accept the cancellation fee when somebody less devoted than the parent commenter gets frustrated enough

I have to tell the taxi driver to turn the damn meter on every time without fail. It's ridiculous. I don't know how someone more vulnerable could possibly use taxis since it's basically attempted robbery every time you enter one. Hopefully Uber/Lift win and Taxis die. For the sake of the disabled, women and children at least. I wouldn't even mind if Uber cost more.

What's the scam there? Do they not turn on the meter and then beg for payment at the end of the ride?

Yep. They'll say "it's $80" and to which you need to ask "where does it say that on the meter?".

At that point it's an intimidation game as the Taxi driver will blatantly demand money for the ride they didn't have the meter on for. It's not fun. It's also happened almost every time i've taken a Taxi in the past 5 years. I think the people who still take Taxis are the vulnerable who don't have phones so they get scammed badly :(

Exactly, and when you're an American and you're in a cab in America that's the best case scenario -- you can probably avoid paying it with enough effort.

When this happened to me in Vietnam is was a pretty ugly situation. I'm not new to world travel, but the driver had the whole con down to an art (dubious toll fees, relationships with local law enforcement, etc) This was just before Uber came to Vietnam and I would never use a local taxi driver again regardless of cost.

Everyone in this thread who defends the airport cabbie cartels of the world must have not actually spent a lot of time around them.

> beg for payment

Not every rider is confident enough to flat out refuse to pay, walk away with 'lol your problem now', and to deal with the more aggressive kind of drivers.

They'll say the meter isn't working and offer a fixed rate that's usually way higher than what you should be paying. It's illegal in many jurisdictions for precisely this reason.

But then you have places where some rides e.g. rides to the airport, have automatic fixed rates and you don't know if the driver is scamming you or not.

It's remarkable how bad many businesses and government regulators are at asking the question "Is this behavior indistinguishable from a scam?"

100%. Will never catch cabs in NYC because they never comply with any local regulation (e.g. none of them were wearing masks at the height of the pandemic), they always overcharge, they often discriminate against you as a customer based on what you look like/where you're going/etc, they always expect 20-25% tip, even if they've done a terrible service, etc.

And you have nothing you can do to fight any of this, other than to just... not use them.

So that's what I do, and instead use an Uber.

I take yellow cabs in NYC all the time and if the service isn't perfect, I don't tip a cent. If they drive well, are polite, and don't try to scam me (the biggest one), I'll tip a couple dollars.

If they try to tell me the meter's broken I just plainly say "I know you're lying, you can turn it on or I'll get out." Then I'll pay them what it says on the meter, to the cent, and say have a nice day. What are they going to do, assault me for not tipping?

A 25% tip for a bad cab ride is a joke, I don't really care what they "expect". This is NYC, there are literally thousands of available jobs in this city right now. If someone isn't pleased with their wage as a taxi driver, I'd happily point them towards any of the dozens of businesses in my neighbourhood with a Hiring sign in the window.

In the UK the black cabs and other taxi services have rolled out similar apps. Uber prices have gone up to the point that a cab is often enough the same price if not cheaper. Never mind that black cab drivers know optimal routes by heart while Uber drivers are often just following phone navigation and getting lost.

Im glad to hear Uber/Lyft/Ride Sharing App pricing has matched that of cabs in London. In New York it was close (at least pre-COVID). I took would always opt for a yellow cab at those crazy prices (making sure that the meter was on, unless I negotiated a price). I'm not sure what cabbies in New York must pass but Definitely in places like London where cabbies must pass but hearing a little about "the knowledge" [1] for London cab licensing, and experiencing their true professionalism, I only wish that a similar test could be administered to anyone professionally driving any vehicle in the city must take.

[1] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3307245/the-knowledge-taxi-tes...

Uber losing money on a ride should be expected to make it a more attractive option than close equivalents that do not lose money.

Exactly. If they were opaque, uncomfortable, and free, they would still "win" (by losing.)

Here in India a common problem with Uber is that drivers will first ask you about your destination and then decide if it is worth their effort to pick you up from your current location and then drop you at the destination. For most parts this leads to a situation where you have to book 5 or 6 rides till you get a driver who is willing to pick you up. And there are tons of places where no driver will pick or drop you. I am from New Delhi, but I have seen the same issue in most Indian cities with uber or ola service.

Drivers will not cancel a ride and expect you to take a hit in terms of cancellation charges. Now if you have a lot of time, you can wait for the 10-15 or so minutes it takes for uber to cancel your ride and then restart the process. I have spent upto 1 hour to not get a ride on many occasions and this was for a ride to a location where uber drivers will not object to normally and for a pick up location that is also within the areas blessed by uber drivers.

In addition to this, there is a growing list of scams specific to uber and its local competitor ola. e.g. a driver will come near you, start a trip and then drive around w/o you for a while and end the trip. Or the driver will ask you to cancel the ride and pay the money in cash. In some cases the driver will only take a trip if you are paying in cash, as that directly goes into their wallets. Uber and Ola have put in a system where they ask you to enter a OTP for some of the rides, which fixes some of the scams.

Here uber has to use a registered commercial vehicle driven by a driver with a commercial driving license, so there is no concept of someone driving an uber part time. When they started, they subsidized rides heavily and encouraged drivers to buy cars on loans. Now uber has withdrawn all the subsidies and most drivers are stuck with a car and a loan that they

In many cities, uber also gives you a service where traditional metered auto rikshaws (they are metered like taxis, but cheaper 3 wheeler vehicles similar to tuk tuks). These typically seem to work better as you get the auto rikshaw at the regular metered price w/o having to deal with auto rikshaw drivers who would want extra fees over the meter if you hailed them using traditional methods.

For my airport transfers, I have defaulted to the local taxi service that had served me well before uber and which continues to give prompt service. They are more expensive, but they are also stress free. And a missed flight is just not worth the headache for the Uber experience.

Uber has killed taxi services in many cities and the replacement has been worse. Now uber drivers and taxi drivers are both complaining of the low pay and bad business.

I don't know if this is true in all cases. In some countries, Taxi apps showed up before Uber, a few of them enabling negotiating the cost beforehand, and Uber still managed to capture a lot of the market.

Sure, those apps might have been a reaction to Uber in other countries, but the fact they were widespread (and sometimes with a great UX) didn't prevent Uber from arriving late but pretty much winning.

Taxi services in my city already had apps that showed the price and car location, along with online payment well before Uber was allowed to operate.

Uber bought it's way into the market here by losing more money than any reasonable business would be able to afford. Now it's more expensive than the services it displaced and still losing money hand over fist.

This software aspect is entirely orthogonal to the "drivers use their own car" aspect. In other countries, you have good old taxi companies providing the experience you describe.

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