China has successfully used this lockdown to make sure no one dies of Covid in Shanghai; but no one is keeping track of the deaths caused by lockdown.
US counts anyone with virus at the time of death while CCP releases no data and on rare occasion they publish statistics, the numbers are several orders of magnitude lower than US numbers.
If China were lying about it's numbers, it would be obvious from antibody tests of people traveling from China. It is clear that they are not undercounting deaths by millions.
So covid is a causing or contributing factor.
In China. It’s recorded as “heart problem”.
We know this because they do it with seasonal flu. America gets like 20m cases of seasonal flu a year. And like 30k deaths. China gets like 50 cases.
China said that if someone has covid in the family. That’s counted as 1, even if the whole family/household has it. And back in 2020 they leaked a document saying if someone tests positive but doesn’t show symptoms then it’s not recorded as a covid case.
But it doesn’t change the fact the reported numbers are massively censored and doctored.
Claims to the contrary are fringe conspiracy theories. The "lab leak" hypothesis is way more probable than the idea that they have hidden 3 million deaths and the associated covid spread... It's just not possible.
> If someone dies after contracting COVID-19 but had, for example, cancer, heart disease or diabetes at the time, Chinese hospitals would not classify the death as resulting from COVID-19, but the chronic illness instead, said Jin Dong-yan (金冬雁), a virologist at Hong Kong University.
> The country has recorded a mere two deaths from more than 443,000 cases since March 1, both of which occurred in Jilin – a province bordering North Korea. Yet, according to a report, several people directly informed the Finanical Times directly that their relatives in Shanghai had passed away after contracting the disease.
There was reports of people saying that they received their family members ashes. They weren’t even told they had died just receive ashes.
I don’t believe China would end up with the highest infection or highest deaths. People are quite content wearing masks and social distancing.
But I do believe the numbers are 10x lower than they are in reality.
Respectfully, I disagree. If there was no possible way to avert it, how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths?
The action/omission distinction is for judging who started a fight in a schoolyard, not for judging the actions of nation-states.
By being ready to lock people in their homes and preventing them to even go buy groceries.
Are you proposing that western countries should/could do this?
We could also ban all sugar/sweeteners, alcohol, driving and sitting still for more than 6 hours a day; this would also save a lot of lives.
You can tune a Paperclip Optimizer to any single good metric, it does not mean that it is a good idea.
So, at the end of the day, I think the rest of the discussion remains unchanged.
Data from China is how we even got the sequence for the virus in the first place.
I'm pretty confident in stating that the average Chinese has overall better immune system function. On a related note I've just learned that one of the reasons they are more affected by the lockdowns is that the culture much prefers fresh food.
And no, there was no way most or any Western nations could have managed lockdowns of the sort that would have the necessary impact (of which I'm highly doubtful), for numerous reasons. The consequences of the so called "soft" approach on lockdowns are and are going to be massive anyway. And probably for naught.
I would disagree with this, especially in Southern China in the winter. The lack of indoor heating has a huge impact on your immune system, to the point that it is extremely easy to get sick.
There is a reason a bunch of old people die in Hong Kong whenever the temperature drops below 5C, which is much more developed compared to the rest of southern china.
I agree, we won't have data, but my gut feeling, having been raised in this kind of environment, is most people are basically poisoned by such lifestyle factors. 88% percent of Americans have a metabolic dysfunction. Again, I agree we couldn't prove this in a satisfactory scientific way, just what my eyes are seeing.
American life expectancies are still significantly higher than Chinese ones. Now, that could just be correlated to healthcare resources (America spends a lot, Chinese spends much less and much of it is wasted on pseudo medicine), but environmental factors also come into play (air pollution must be having an effect already).
Do you really believe they 'averted 'the deaths? or is it more likely they hid the truth. I vote for the latter; they don't have a good track record.
They would not be able to hide infection on the level that the US has had it - antibody tests from travelers from China would show it trivially, social media would show it.
The idea that China has secretly had 3 million covid deaths and widespread infection without anybody realizing is a conspiracy theory.
As I've said, it would be obvious from antibody tests if they did this.
Not going to keep responding, you are letting your feelings about China's government cloud your judgement on the facts.
You’re saying the firefighters (WHO and the Western response) didn’t do enough to put out the fire burning down their houses (western countries), while simultaneously praising the neighbor (China) who found the fire, lied about the fire, “disappeared” people who attempted to report the fire, delayed response to the fire, spread the fire, but FINALLY at the eleventh hour made sure their own house didn’t burn from the fire.