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Comment by MathYouF | Hacker News Reader

For anyone else reading, this does not seem like a qualified or legitimate take on Japanese life from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo. Maybe the OP has had equal personal experience and just percieved it differently, but there's almost no chance a Japanese person in Tokyo would dine and dash, and being raised in their culture from birth absolutely does make one less inclined to do things like that.

Post-modernist views that all cultures make people who are equally bad and good and that it has little effect simply don't hold up to even a cursory analysis of available statistics on the regional rates of crime/violence/exploitation worldwide.

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Intrestingly, I was in a little bar in Ōimachi, Tokyo just the other day. (First time in ...years? Because of COVID-19.) A slightly drunk local guy stormed in with a printed security camera picture of a guy that had committed several dine & dash incidents (and a theft of some decorative jewelry) in the neighboring bars during the last weeks, the bar we were in being one of the victims. He came to hear the story of the owner of the bar and to confirm the guy in the picture was the same, and then left to spread the word to other places.

I have lived almost 7 years in Japan, and this was the first time I heard of such an incident happening somewhere around me, but "食い逃げ" ("kuinige", dine & dash) is a word you tend to encounter here and there.

I would say petty theft is absolutely less common in Japan and I will leave my laptop in a starbucks while I go to the toilet or go to order something which I wouldn't in Europe or the US for example.

However, I have seen crime in Japan, a close Japanese friend of my non-japanese ex-wife stole her bankbook and proceeded to withdraw money (my ex-wife used the same pin for her phone and her bankbook and so her friend most likely saw the pin from the phone). My ex-wife reported it to the police, the "friend" gave the money back and got a slap on the wrist but no real consequences.

My female roommate also had a lot of experiences of various sexual crimes, over the 7 years she lived in Japan, her underwear were stolen once, she saw a flasher who was completely naked under his coat and opened it when she passed by and she was concerned enough by someone following her over multiple blocks that she went to the koban.

And finally, as a male, I once went to the urinals in the toilet in osaka and noticed the guy to my right making noises, he was looking at me and touching himself... Kind of turned me off for years of public toilets.

So, the myth of Japan being crimeless at least to me seems like a myth. Crime takes different form, sexual crimes are definitely in my anecdotal experience more common than in other countries, theft of belongings are definitely less of an issue than in Europe/US.

Also, I don't think any of the above crimes would show up in statistics. I'm pretty sure the first one which was straight theft would not have been reported at all.

However, as a counterpoint to reporting, my ex-wife knew of a foreign student at her university who stole for a bit more than 1,000 jpy of things from a combini, was deported and not allowed to enter Japan for 5 years. I'm pretty sure that any crime committed by foreigners in Japan will always be reported and treated harshly.

Unless it's umbrellas. I probably don't understand some social custom here, but what should I call it when I leave my umbrella at the entrance and it is gone when I come back 5 minutes later...

If it's one of those clear umbrellas, it's borrowing from the common pool :)

More seriously, yes umbrellas definitely disappear very quickly, I have however noticed that the more intricate an umbrella is, the less likely it is stolen.

So it's fine to just take another one then?

Crime statistics only work if they're recorded honestly. Lots of crimes are seriously underreported in Japan, but it's been getting better over the last decade or so.

Humans are humans are humans. Get any large enough group of them and some percent will be law breakers. This isn't post-modernist, it's common sense.

Culture has an impact, obviously, but police corruption, underreporting, and maintaining reputation play a significant factor in Japan's low crime rates.

I witnessed zero crimes committed living for a year in the middle of a 30 million person city (Tokyo) . I also witnessed no yelling, no littering, no fighting in public, no speaking loudly or playing music on public transportation, no public shouting of vulgarity, and no theft. I left my Macbook in a Starbucks unattended for an hour and walked around a mall and it was still there when I came back.

All places and people and cultures are not the same. There are objective measures one can use to see this is true. Take a walk around Manhattan (~11 million) or any other city in the world and try to replicate my results.

Culture matters and has an effect on making better citizens and therefore a better quality of life for everyone. It is not simply a matter of them pretending to have these virtues, they have them and the evidence is reflected both in numbers and ones personal experience if they visit.

I've lived in Japan two years and echoing what the other commenter said, there's definitely crime in Japan, moreso in Tokyo, but it's usually more low key and I don't think as widespread (or violent).

- A delinquent student I had who dropped out in junior high caught up with me and told me how he went to jail and was a low level gangster.

- I also knew an Australian older guy who got jumped by some teenagers when he was drunk.

- Also a drunk guy tried to hit on a girl I knew while we were walking to the train station and literally tried to physically drag her somewhere and hit my other friend who wanted to talk to him peacefully.

- A creepy old guy showed two junior high girls a binder full of pictures of underage girls in a supermarket food court and was trying to proposition them or something. My friend used to be their English teacher and confronted him in Japanese. When I turned to look at the supermarket, everyone was dead silent mouth agape. The old security guard lady who worked there was crying.

- I believe I also spoke to a cop or an older person who said during the earthquake their was concern of people stealing or commiting crimes and they'd do it quietly.

- There's also the women's only train in place because of chikan or train perverts who try to grope women during rush hour. I don't know of many other countries that have it.

I definitely think Japan is one of the safest countries in the world. I left my phone on a bike and found it still there hours later, but there's definitely crime. I also don't know if it's great to conflate yelling, littering, etc. with crime, but there's definitely a correlation.

It's a sad reflection on the state of safety in many of the world's cities but...this is quite tame. I think the question is: what are the chances of being a target in the worst crimes, which are being randomly assaulted/mugged/murdered/raped. From the women I know who have been to Japan they've recounted that it's one of the few countries they felt safe (in most areas) walking home late at night. Of course, that attitude probably leads to a few bad outcomes occasionally.

Again, I think Japan is one of the safest countries in the world. I'm mainly addressing the parent's comments that they've never seen crime in Japan and sometimes the meme in Japan that there's no crime at all.

I’m curious about your ex-student being a low level gangster. What kind of activities did he do?

This is one part of Japanese society I know very little about. My wife always talks about yakuza being bad but can’t provide an details other than “they are bad.”

She hates going to Kabukicho but it never feels particularly unsafe to me where as in the US there’s definitely places I would avoid at all cost.

I think he went to jail for being in a fight.

I don't know much about gangster's in Japan, but I'd say from my limited experience that they manage basically gray-market and black-market businesses. E.g. hostess clubs and adult entertainment, some of the general entertainment industry, maybe drugs to a small extent, loan sharking, gambling and other related things.

I would say that the violence typically doesn't bleed out to the general population unless you get invovled in some way, but you will get ripped off if you do business with them (again, I have very limited experience with this).

As a low-level gangster, he probably was trying to get people on the street to attend an adult entertainment location (or scouting new actresses) and do general gopher jobs for higher-ups.

Edit: Yeah, Kabuki-cho isn't that bad to be honest. To see the real dangerous Yakuza part of town, you have to go to Yoshiwara. I went there with a local and there was a dude walking around with no shirt and carrying a sword over his shoulder. He told me to not look anyone in the eye. There were police on each side of the street.

Having lived in Tokyo long enough to have witnessed crime (with blood on the pavement), reported crime to the police, have people admit their minor criminal behaviour to me, and also hear second hand reports of serous criminal behaviour of people I know, I would limit the time I leave a high end laptop unattended in a busy Starbucks to the time it takes to order a refill/snack or go to the toilet :-) in fact I’ve done it probably hundreds of times. Which is to say I have no real concerns about crime there, but am no idealist. I would not leave a laptop unattended in my own country for any amount of time, the culture of westerners is far more opportunistic for even minor individual gain, and much less conscious of one’s place in society.

I think you're overstating the obviousness and up-frontness of crime in most of the US. I can't recall the last time I "witnessed crime" out and about here in America. Public urination or something a few years ago, probably. Or littering more recently, though you mention it separately. "I didn't witness crimes in a year" doesn't sound exceptional.

Yelling or mental health issues, sure, there's a different culture there in America, but "loud vs quiet" as a cultural different doesn't seem like a major moral issue, and it's well known that the US is handling mental health poorly, so sure, I'll give you that.

But then on the flip side, Tokyo is also notorious for public-but-sneaky sexual assault, no?

I lived in the middle of Chicago for 4 years and never saw any crimes while I was there; littering and (harmless) drunks perhaps the worst of it.

Of course, I naturally avoided any area/time where I expected crime to occur… but I didn’t have to exert any real efforts to do so (at least partly because I had nothing drawing me to shitty areas; Devon St and chinatown were the worst areas with any draw… and they’re not too bad even at night).

Lots of ambulances passing by though. And lots of stories.

But easy enough to replicate. Cities are big places. There’s a lot of ways to experience them.

~Aside: Looking through your comment history you seem really cool and like we have quite a bit in common, feel free to hit me up over discord!

> from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo

Sounds like we have an expert here.

> there's almost no chance a Japanese person in Tokyo

So you’re saying there’s a chance?

GP did not say everyone does it, obviously Japan is very safe, but it’s far from perfect. People just don’t report everything and just don’t talk about it. Hang out around a pachinko to find out more about Japanese people.

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