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Comment by ilrwbwrkhv | Hacker News Reader

How does the touchpad and the 2 finger scroll compare to the MacBooks? Having used those I haven't found anything matching those.

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Nothing compares to the Apple track pad.

My XPS 17 from 2020 has a worse trackpad than my 2012 MB Air.

I purchased and returned an XPS last year and the trackpad was unbelievably bad. After using Mac laptops for the previous 10 years, I hadn’t thought the difference in hardware quality could be so far apart. MacBooks are at least a generation ahead of the best PC hardware (generation as in, 10 years)

Likewise, 2021 Dell XPS 15. Had to retire it very early -- trackpad issues, then frame deformation caused by moving the laptop would cause the RAM or the CPU to crash.

Framework working great now.

> 2021 Dell XPS 15. Had to retire it very early -- trackpad issues

Me over here with a 2021 XPS 15 using a mouse 24/7 because the touchpad lags hard on linux but refuses to admit I got burnt lol. I'd be over the moon if framework released a 15" model.

Not going to lie, I was worried about the lack of a 15" model. But, working great for me even so.

I just couldn't be productive with the laptop, ya know? You gotta be able to move!

https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-laptops?test_uuid=06r4M...

The XPS isn't a great example of the best PC hardware, but it IS a pretty good example of the best laptop performance one can get for the price of an iPhone. ^^

I mean, to Dell and the XPS's credit, it all appeared great until I started using the trackpad. Structurally it's super rigid and the hinge was satisfying. I also really prefer the rubberized+carbon fiber thing other Dell laptops have going on, much more than the cold and sharp MacBook. Even the packaging is getting Apple-esque with heavy cardboard and near-mechanical boxes. But, that trackpad produced so much dissonance and is such a critical part of interacting with the machine and software.

Absolutely. Nothing (that is $600+ cheaper) compares to the Apple touchpad (at least to my knowledge).

On the other hand, almost any keyboard is better than what Apple sells :) their latest mbp is a bit better than the butterfly one but nowhere near the 2015 and earlier models.

The surface laptops are the closest I've felt.

I stand corrected. The 2017 XPS 17 retailed at only about $200 cheaper than the 2012 Air (with inflation, I'm being generous with the rounding.

I know this back-and-forth happens every single time there's a conversation about this on HN, but I just want to point out that trackpads are extremely personal, and I've had nothing but bad experiences with Apple trackpads until recently. The "hinge" models of the previous decade border on unusable for me because of the force required to click them, whereas my (early decade) XPS model has the best trackpad of any laptop I've ever used and it includes physical left/right buttons, which I love.

My advice is to try out the trackpad on a laptop before you buy it if this is something that matters to you, not trust the opinions of Internet strangers.

huh? apple hasn't used the "hinge" touchpad since 2015, more than 7 years ago. unlike afaik every other touchpad out there, the actuation force is actually adjustable. i'm not sure whether this is necessarily a good change, but it certainly is a change, and your data seems woefully out of date.

My comment is literally a response to someone talking about a MacBook Air from 2012.

Regardless, the comment stands, as even though Apple's trackpads have improved I would still strongly prefer a device with physical left/right buttons.

> My advice is to try out the trackpad on a laptop before you buy it if this is something that matters to you, not trust the opinions of Internet strangers.

This really applies to most products, especially those that you interact with so frequently and directly. It's one reason that in the EU you have a 14-day "right of withdrawal" for all purchases made at a distance (most commonly being internet purchases).

>My advice is to try out the trackpad on a laptop before you buy it if this is something that matters to you, not trust the opinions of Internet strangers.

I can’t disagree, but trying out Mac hardware is far easier than trying PC hardware. I can walk into an Apple store and try all the major hardware variations.

I had to get my XPS 17 based on online reviews. Because I can’t go out and try it. Buying PC laptops is the very definition of trusting internet strangers.

2021 Dell Precision 5750. It's a $3000 laptop and the trackpad is a disaster due to flakey palm or loose t-shirt rejection. 15 years after the introduction of the glass trackpads of the first aluminum unibody MacBooks, you'd think that others would figure it out, but no.

(The rest of the laptop is equally bad, but that's a different story.)

Interested in this too, as well as how it compares to the Framework

I can't comment on the StarBook, but the Framework touchpad is really great. I had an early model that had a slightly annoying out-of-the-box issue where I had to click kind of hard, but after doing that it works great now. Two-finger scroll is super smooth, and it properly detects 1/2/3 finger gestures, etc.

I think my frame.work is doing the "kinda hard" click thing too. Did you just break it in, or change something mechanically? I mostly use the keyboard, so it's a very minor annoyance to me.

ah yes, let me find the instructions!

EDIT: this is what fixed it for me:

> Pressing the bottom center of the touchpad firmly a few times has resolved the issue in some cases.[1]

Said in a slightly different way:

> There were also a small number of early units produced that may have contact issues on the physical switch on the Touchpad. Try pressing the bottom middle of the Touchpad firmly a few times to see if that resolves the issue. If it does not, please contact Framework Support.[2]

[1]: https://community.frame.work/t/known-issues-on-early-framewo...

[2]: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/touchpad-not-working-...

Looks like after a few _hard_ presses the problems are gone. Thanks!

Awesome! super glad to hear it. btw framework support is really great. I've opened a couple of cases with them and they're super helpful

Yeah, I had the same experience. They reply super fast and with no bs. As a support engineer in the past life, I really appreciated it.

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