StarBook 14-inch
starlabs.systems
starlabs.systems
They do some things better than Framework such as supporting Ryzen processors, and seem a bit cheaper overall. The battery life seems like it would be better. They have a spare parts store as well and a full disassembly guide as well as an "open warranty". I was never a fan of Framework's swappable ports.
The biggest disadvantage seems to be that the screen is bog-standard 16:9.
I'm curious on the quality of the speakers, webcam, keyboard, and trackpad. I have a feeling they will not be great - in comparison to a Macbook at any rate.
From reviews it looks like the trackpad is poor because it is not whole-trackpad clickable, and the keyboard is also poor due to the short key travel.
Are there any other decent alternatives available in the UK?
Bigger than that IMO is 14" @ 1080p. It's just too little for daily use for me. Framework are so far the only ones in this market segment who have ever marketed >1080p laptop displays AFAIK. I have a hard time understanding why there is such a lack of higher-res panel options across the market, even when seemingly all other relevant specs are high-end.
I'm sure like usual when this comes up, some people will come reply with "you can't make out the difference anyway", which is just not true. Some of us prefer smaller fonts and higher information density. 8px font size is just less ergonomic and more tiring for the eyes. For 16:9 14" I just won't consider anything below 1440p.
Currently announced:
* Lenovo X1 Carbon G10 - 14" 16:10 3840x2400 500-nit 100% DCI-P3 60Hz IPS
* Lenovo ThinkBook 13X Gen2 - 14" 16:10 2560x1600 400-nit 60Hz IPS
* Lenovo ThinkPad Z13 - 13.3" 16:10 2880x1800 400-nit 100% DCI-P3 60Hz IPS
* ASUS Zenbook 14X OLED UX5401 - 14" 16:10 2880x1800 550-nit 100% DCI-P3 90Hz OLED
* Asus Vivobook S 14X OLED - 14.5" 16:10 2880x1800 550-nit 100% DCI-P3 120Hz OLED
I'm also keeping an eye out for the next gen refresh of the Tuxedo Infinity Book Pro 14 - they use a 16:10 2880x1800 400-nit display as well (these are a TongFang ID4H1, and XPG and some other OEMs also use a similar chassis).
I've been pretty disappointed with my Lenovo X1 Carbon and don't want another Chinese laptop, so I'm thinking to go ASUS. Currently maybe one of:
- ASUS Vivobook Pro 14X, 14" OLED, 600 nits (peak), 3K, 90Hz
- ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14, 14" LCD, 500 nits, 120Hz, 2560x1600, AMD GPUIt is true for those people. No doubt that's not true for you, but you're not everyone. With fairly small screens (14" is small compared to a 24" desktop monitor) I genuinely don't notice the difference. I'm sure if you would put two screens next to each other I'd be able to spot differences, but in daily use? Not really. I used to have a employer-provided 15" Dell XPS with some >1080p resolution (I forgot which exactly) and I really didn't notice.
There are downsides, too: the computer has to work harder to render all those pixels and the battery life is shorter; my battery life was noticeably shorter than my previous almost identical XPS with a "normal" 1080p screen, so it's a trade-off.
Having an option would be nice for those who care about it of course, but I suspect a large section of people just don't care, and especially as a fairly small shop you can't do everything.
Makes me wonder why Apple is capable of building laptops that run for hours and have a high DPI screen then? Don't confuse Dell dropping the ball on hardware and software integration with trade-offs. There are upsides to high DPI too: you can turn off anti-aliasing since you won't notice it when the pixels are too small to see.
It's a tired myth that "the human eye can't perceive the difference and you don't either". We're all different, with different needs and preferences.
While what you say is probably true I just wish it was not the constant narrative around laptops that have nice screens. I bought a Samsung Galaxy Chromebook and absolutely loved the 4K OLED screen it had up until the day its WiFi suddenly died. Everything looked amazing on it - even just the boring ChromeOS UI elements looked amazing. However every reviewer had the same feedback - that you can't tell the difference and you should shoot for 1080.
This is weird to me because I feel like I have the opposite problem. I don't want retina displays I derive no joy from and that eat more power for that lack of joy, never mind cause problems with differential scaling if I plug into a lower res desktop screen. I find I can't get high quality laptops that don't force me to have a too-high density screen.
I have settled for the framework because everything else about it is perfect for me, but I kind of hope someday they sell a replacement non-hidpi screen for it and I will very much buy it. The possibility of those kinds of choices down the line is why I bought into it.
For me, my big pet peeve is the difficulty of finding a high resolution (4K/5K) desktop monitor that is not enormous.
Retina is a slightly overkill for me too, but I'd still prefer it over FullHD.
System76, Clevo, and OP(StarBook) are all 1080p only. I'm sure I saw others I just don't remember right now.
Dell has sold their Linux-ready "developer edition" XPS 13 with a UHD+ screen for quite a few years now. (They max out at 16GB of RAM, though, unfortunately.)
Dell isn't quite as "open" as something like Framework or System76 (or Star Labs), but they at least sell their Developer Edition laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled, at your option, and claim the hardware is supported properly in Linux.
(I say "claim", because I have the 2018 model, with a fingerprint scanner with no Linux driver.)
Fingerprint reader support for Linux in general has been a sticking point for a very long time, including on the XPS series. (I still fondly remembering the blobs needed for my old ThinkPad's reader to work...) But it's basically the only thing that requires blobs from my knowledge. I don't even bother with it on my stock Fedora install, though it is quite slick in Windows, I admit...
The Samsung is fine but the screen is very mediocre in comparison. The same dreadful 1080p screen as world + dog insists on these days. Gnome makes it more cramped by insisting on a top bar thingy. I'd love to have a much higher resolution and brighter screen. 16:9 is just way to claustrophobic. And why do window managers insist on this silly top bar these days? That just eats into already limited space. Currently using Gnome and of course the one extension for that that fixes that (auto hide the damn thing), promptly broke when I updated Gnome.
Writing this on my good old imac 5K; the original one from 2014. Now that's a nice screen. My 2017 15" macbook pro had the infamously shitty keyboard, which actually ended breaking the very nice retina screen by virtue of a loose key that inserted itself in between the keyboard and the screen when I closed it. So something that should not be falling apart actually fell apart and did maximum damage. Absolutely disgraceful. I'm glad they ditched that design.
The Samsung at a quarter of the price manages a nice keyboard (with numeric keys even), a passable touchpad (multi touch but mechanical click sadly) and even a nice aluminium cover. If it weren't for the screen, I'd call it a superior deal. About as fast, same amount of ssd/memory, and it runs a lot cooler (i5 with xe graphics). Also, no thermal throttling because it just does not overheat. But at this price, I'm not complaining. This laptop with a better screen would be an awesome deal. Somebody needs to start doing this. 16:10, 4K would be what I'd spend money on.
There are plenty of options, just most of them aren't cheap, or fitting in targeted price range.
There isn't a lack of high-res panel in supply, but a lack of high-res panel in demand. Or in other words, no-one apart from Apple (not that Apple gave its user a choice, but let's ignore this for a moment ) manage to market Retina or high-res panel and created enough demand to sustain a different upgrade option or SKUs.
This then cycles back, without economy of scale, not just a vendor but the whole industry, high-res panel do not enjoy the unit cost reduction as standardise low -res panel ( or 1080P panel, which isn't really "low-res" ). So the cost of these specific panel are far higher, increasing BOM, increase RSP, etc. etc.
Next question that always comes after this answer is always;
>"But we have higher prices SKUs, it is not like there isn't a demand for current SKUs +$100 / 200"
Yes. But given the option to choose between paying extra $100 / $200, the market tends to flavour for more memory, faster CPU or better GPU. Not higher-res panel.
Mine has a 4K screen and to be honest it’s a bit of a pain at that size.
It looks great but everything is a bit small with pixel doubling.
If it boots in native res then it’s unreadable. You have to mess with grub and set the font size to something enormous.
I wish I’d opted for HD 1080 when I bought it. Would be readable and the battery life would be longer.
I'd probably opt for 1440p+, but given the rest and the price maybe not. For others, 1080 might be just fine.
If it works for you, great, I'm just tired of people telling me I don't understand what I want and I shouldn't have to write a blog post justifying myself everytime I claim that higher screen res makes a huge difference for my use-case. It's not like Chinese language is an edge-case.
One practical aspect is how they are very inconsistent in making crucial firmware updates available. In theory, they're on fwupd/LVFS. In practice, that can lag behind by months or even years and the only way to get necessary updates to get security fixes or get certain hardware working is many times to boot from Windows.
It really does make you wonder why there such a noticeable difference!
For some weird reason if you pick a non-english keyboard you can only pick the i7-1165G7 (which IMHO is the worst proposal of the three available if you pick an english keyboard).
I should hope so! :P
I really like that they provide a detailed pictorial complete disassembly guide: https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/guides/starbook-mk-v-com...
Is there really only a single USB-C port, and is that port also needed for charging? Does that port support DisplayPort?
Thanks!
The USB-C port is Thunderbolt 4. I think that means it should support DP too, but don't take my word for it. USB-C/Thunderbolt confuse me.
HDMI version: 2.0
USB-C Interface: DisplayPort (DP Alt Mode)
USB-C version: Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40 Gbps) [Intel only]
USB-A version: 3.2 Gen 1 (up to 5 Gbps)
Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to two displays with 4096x2304 resolution at 60Hz
I was on an Intel MBP previously and everything I was using it for is supported just fine on M1. Some things require Rosetta but most big apps have updated support for M1 directly at this point.
Our docker development environment was based on x64 but it was pretty trivial to add support for ARM to it.
Gaming can be a challenge (when hasn't it been with Mac though), particularly GamePass games (through Parallels Windows 11) seems to be a hit-or-miss. Games through Steam, even virtualized through Parallels, have been fine though. On my M1 Max w/ 64GB memory I can play everything I've tried at ultra settings.
A couple of examples I've run into that weren't trivial: Chrome on Linux doesn't support ARM (Chromium does), nor does Microsoft's SQL Server Docker image (though their Azure version of SQL Server does, and for most, it's no real difference)
Contrary to other comments later, I have no niche needs. Well… I’m predominantly a Perl coder, so that’s niche but nothing to do with architecture. I spend most of my days with just iTerm, a couple of browsers, Slack. Not much else. I’ve been an edit-over-ssh developer for 20 years.
My M1 was also my first experience of Big Sur, so I was never sure whether my issue was hardware or software. But issues I had:
• frequently it would stop all ipv4 networking, going ipv6 only (which in practical terms meant I went offline)
• I would often - multiple times a week - lose all sound devices. Suddenly things would go silent, and all inputs/outputs (including the built in speakers/mic) would disappear from preferences. For a while only a reboot would fix it, until I learned to `killall coreaudiod`
• chrome would often say “you don’t have a camera”, which I could only fix by a reboot (we use Google Meet, and safari was always terrible with it. But I just prefer chrome anyway)
I had a variety of other problems but can’t recall them clearly enough to list them, especially from this temporal distance.
[EDITED to add: I did go through hardware checks and company IT checks, but nothing ever came up as faulty]
I did love that it was silent and permanently cool, but that was about it. Since it too was always plugged in, any difference in trackpad or keyboard or battery life made zero odds to me, and that’s why those things don’t matter to me about the Starbook either.
When Monterey came out I upgraded and actually things got mostly (but not entirely) better. But by that time I’d ordered the Starbook, and the desktop Linux experience has been so good - not to mention just a refreshing change - that I don’t regret it one bit. And if I do, well, the work MBP is sat in the corner and I can resurrect it…
The only downside I've seen is that I can't seem to tax it, which has made me lazy -- I now have hundreds of chrome tabs open over dozens of windows and it hasn't skipped a beat.
Macbook Pro eliminated this limitation, but it almost feels like it's using the same technology, as it often loses window locations.
Early on software support was limited, but for many apps, that's been resolved. (Even "unsupported" apps can still run, though I typically don't jump through many hoops, especially when I run into Docker images that don't support ARM)
> This puts them somewhere between x86 PCs and a libre-first system like the Talos II in terms of freedom to replace firmware and boot components; while a number of blobs are required in order to boot the system, none of those have the ability to take over the OS or compromise it post-boot (unlike, say, Intel ME and AMD PSP on recent systems, or the DMA-capable chips on the LPC bus running opaque blobs that exist on even old ThinkPads).
> From a security perspective, these machines may possibly qualify as the most secure general purpose computers available to the public which support third-party OSes, in terms of resistance to attack by non-owners.
[0]: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Appl...
Well they're already in legal trouble for abusing their iOS market dominance with the new EU proposed legislation, they know the tides are turning against big tech, so they didn't lock down the MacBooks preemptively to brace themselves for what's coming, not because Apple has somehow now become a FOSS supporter.
Before you applaud Apple for being too libre and think the company has changed direction, keep in mind this is the same company that ships recently launched monitors without user replaceable power cords and locks out in firmware the possibility to upgrade the SSDs on the very expensive Mac Studio despite teardowns showing that it's phisically possible by end users.
Also, as a curiosity, why is every thread related to a X86 news, need to bring in the Apple M1 fan army and bang their drums? They serve completely different markets. For those consumers or companies that need to run X86 windows/Linux binaries that have no Mac ports, M1 based hardware is off the table from the start. And the device from this topic is designed to cater to that market, not to compete with M1.
Because this thread isn't about x86 news; it's about a laptop. And Apple makes laptops, which have the M1 chip in them. It's completely fair to discuss them, especially because one of the selling points of TFA is that it supports coreboot.
Honestly? Efficiency & battery life without sacrificing speed/performance.
If you need great battery life (or simply don't want to have to worry about charging your laptop frequently), it's hard to swallow ~4-10h battery life of a typical X86 laptop when MBA/MBP are consistently achieving 10-16+ with real-world use.
...not to mention the other perks MacBooks hold over their competitors, e.g. fit/finish, display quality, speakers, etc.
>They serve completely different markets.
Do they, though? With so many things being web-based these days, it's not very hard for most people (without specific needs) to switch to an M1 as their primary device without experiencing problems.
Really? I have a 2019 MBP and it doesn't last more than 3 hrs on 100% charge. The only usage is for the web development. And this is my third MBP (the old ones are dead because their magic boards became dead after the expiry of 1yr warranty + 2yr AppleCare plan).
The battery drains pretty quickly if I attach it to an external monitor.
Also, the evil `kernel_task` process eats up all CPU cores (for minutes and the machine remains unusable in the meantime) that drains the battery within an hour if I don't keep my table fan pointed at it (probably because Apple doesn't give a sh*t about the products they sell in India and their performance at 30-45 deg celsius temperature which is normal in Indian subcontinents).
I never get more than a couple hours on my MBP, 2.5-3 tops.
Why do people insist you need to buy a Ferrari when your work or lifestyle requires an F-150?
Therefore, back to my original question, why do M1 fans need go off topic on every X86 article and spray the same things over and over again: "but muh' Geekbench score", "muh' excellent battery life", "muh' no fan noise" and insist you're wrong for choosing to go X86 even though you don't have a choice because of the architecture.
We know the pros, Ok? But some of us still need X86 machine like the one in the article, regardless if those are machines not for you. And if they're not for you, that's fine, but why always bang on with the M1 trope everywhere?
The cheapest M1 laptop is actually really affordable, almost the same price as this laptop's cheapest configuration. This is probably the exact product I would be looking for if I were trying to avoid buying from Apple. I couldn't find anything on cooling/fans, so IDK if this will be another standard Intel jet engine and lap burner.
What do you mean? The root post complains about M1 and thus it was brought up. It's not like an Apple bro army parachuted in and started comparing x86 to the M1
Computer enthusiasts have heard for ages that X86 is bloated, and that alternate instruction sets are better if only the tooling good catch up. Now that Apple is pushing ARM across the line, and ARM servers are becoming popular - folks want to see the linux ARM machine.
The SSD is also a misnomer. The influencers couldn’t put a normal SSD in a mac and make it boot. But they don’t understand that there is integration with the crypto at hardware level. And there’s no reason to suspect that apple won’t provide SSD replacements on the open market as part of their self repair program.
This is the power of crappy influencer bloggers. Distributing misinformation which everyone parrots verbatim. They are a cancer on the planet and so are the followers.
Realistically these are absolutely trivial issues in the scale of things blown way out of proportion by people looking for problems rather than actually using the hardware.
No, Linus put the SSD from another Mac Studio into the second slot of a Mac Studio and it wouldn't boot, and it wouldn't even run recovery to format everything and do a factory reset. So Apple is obviously firmware locking the Mac Studios to their factory configuration despite only genuine Apple hardware being used in the upgrade.
Again Linus doesn’t know what he’s doing. Another influencer confirming my point.
This is not a PC. That’s where the assumption goes wrong.
I don't get all those accusations that are constantly recirculated on tech forums. A non-removable power cord has a big advantage: it's hard to lose it. I've never damaged a power cord before (or heard of someone who had) so is it really that damning you should go to a repair shop for something like that? Also, Apple never advertised removable SSD modules. I don't care what they put in that box as long as it works as advertised.
How could you possibly loose a monitor power cord? It's not a portable device that you travel with. But in a home or office setting I can certainly see the cord getting crimped under the weight of the feet of desks or chairs.
>so is it really that damning you should go to a repair shop for something like that?
Yes, going with your equipment to an Apple Store enquires down time and extra costs that wouldn't be a problem if you could swap the cable yourself in two minutes.
Heck, they already do that with the excellent removable mag-safe power cable on the Studio display. Come on! Seriously. They proved they can do it but choose not to because fck the consumers and the environment.
>Also, Apple never advertised removable SSD modules. I don't care what they put in that box as long as it works as advertised.*
That's the problem. It's not about you, it's about the environment and the e-waste that these company's products generate because while they could be more user upgradable and repairable like the old Macs were that people still upgrade and use today, Apple now spends resources to make sure their new products are not upgradable or repairable, in order to have you buy more of their stuff instead of keep using their old products for longer.
It's also useful in some setups to use power cords with right-angled connectors, because they make cable management easier.
Also, moving to another country is easier with standard sockets: just get a couple of new power cables from any random hardware store and you're good to go!
Lose??? The power cord for a big monitor???
The mental gymnastics are amazing! Good old Stevie J., now turned zombie, still projecting the distortion field.
Don’t worry. They will lock it down.
It's gotten to the point now that I am increasingly frustrated with the fact that there are no good USB-C capable hubs that take a USB-C USB 4 and turn it into an 8 port USB-C hub. With a mix of 10 Gbps/5 Gbps/480 Mbps speeds.
I can get plenty of USB-C to USB-A hubs, but that is not what I want.
> 8 port USB-C hub
And I believe a major reason for the lack of these, is that, if a dock/hub/etc. that consumes a USB4/Thunderbolt host port, wants to be able to expose a full-speed USB4/Thunderbolt downstream port of its own, then that port isn't going to work for peripherals that are picky about speeds/lanes if you have any other USB devices plugged into the hub. So vendors choose "the ability to plug a single Thunderbolt device in, plus other things" over "the ability to plug a bunch of USB4/3.2 devices in."
The world has moved to a single standard for charging for all devices, we're just waiting for the "transition period" to run out as the devices with nonstandard charging expire, it's inappropriate to design new hardware with an obsolete charging approach.
Barrel connectors are physically much more robust: they can rotate around their axis without imposing any torsional stress on the device being charged, and the longer lever arm inside the charging device (typically 15 mm) means that flexural stress around other axes creates much less force on the connector. Consequently, they break much less often than pre-C micro-USB connectors. It's too early to tell whether USB-C will improve on its predecessors in this regard, and it may, but it seems unlikely to reach barrel-connector levels of reliability just based on its geometry.
Barrel-connector ports are easier to repair when they break: there are only two wires, and they are quite thick. This is true a fortiori for the cables.
Barrel-connector charger faults are easier to diagnose: either the voltmeter tells you it's outputting 19 volts open circuit (or whatever the rated voltage is), or it's not, or, rarely, it has the correct open-circuit voltage but sags under load, the diagnosis of which requires a voltmeter and a power resistor. Moreover, they are less likely to occur; you are not going to break a bipolar SMPS with static electricity, not even if it is attached to a 5-volt USB cable, but you can easily do that to the CMOS control chips necessary for USB-C voltage negotiation.
Barrel connectors pose less of a security risk: they do not, in most cases, have a data connection at all, and a malicious charger definitely cannot execute a firmware upgrade attack on your device through a barrel connector.
Against this list of technical advantages you claim that barrel charging ports are "nonstandard" and "obsolete" — not because of any actual USB-C functionality, nor even because there are more USB-C-chargeable devices in the world than devices with barrel connectors, but just because USB-C is newer and currently fashionable. The maximally charitable interpretation of your post is that USB-C chargers are capable of providing a range of different voltages, so the complexity of voltage conversion goes into the charger instead of your headphones. But that's an extremely weak argument; a buck converter capable of deriving 5 V 300 mA from, say, 19 V is already much smaller, lighter, and cheaper than a pair of wireless headphones, and adding USB-C charging support to your product also requires a significant BOM cost, and the necessity to operate on 5 V as well as whatever it prefers, though maybe less weight than the buck.
What's inappropriate is that you're attempting to dictate decisions of technical functionality on the grounds of mere fashion and social approval, then shaming others for disagreeing with your judgment rather than supporting it by any actual arguments.
I predict that >99% of devices made this year that can only charge through USB-C ports will be nonfunctional in 15 years. That is, they are cheap trash, designed to be discarded rather than repaired. You should be ashamed of yourself for attacking my social standing to convince people to accept this inferior technology. The form of your argument — a veiled personal attack — makes it unworthy of being posted on this site, or, actually, anywhere.
Also makes for the possibility of "Redundant Power Supply", in case you use your old Laptop as a "HomeServer".
And I definitely don't want my default to have to be using adapters for my USB-C devices, so they can be plugged into the USB-A ports.
Gives you power and three usbc.
Edit: aha, I see replacement parts including batteries are available if you select "parts" from the menu.
Ordering screen alert says "Production for the StarLite's has now finished, and are in the final stages of testing. Orders placed now are estimated to ship out in 2-3 weeks."
There are some unstated "if"s in that, so I would say until people actually receive units, it doesn't quite exist.
Anyway I will keep an eye out for this. I'm going to need another laptop at some point and this seems like a possibility, as does the Framework, etc.
It's buried, but their website claims the ME is disabled by default: Go to "Configure", expand "Firmware", and click "Learn More":
> By default, the Intel ME is disabled on both coreboot and AMI.
Kudos for being wary of marketing copy. I'd like to note that StarLabs has been shipping laptops of their own design for a few years now. They've been super transparent about manufacturing lead times and their order queue too. I don't own anything of theirs yet, but I've been keeping an eye on them long enough to say I appreciate their way of doing business.
ARM is no better. You’d have to get RISC-V for that.
Also POWER stuff is free from most, if not all, boot blobs. Maybe something for ram init... I forget.
And of course it can't do fast homomorphic encryption either, so that's a hard pass here.
The other thing is the 1080p screen. I have that on my XPS 13, and it's... fine, but not great. The laptop I had before it had a higher-res screen, and I liked it much better, though I'm sure it negatively affected battery life.
The price point is pretty decent, though. Spec'd the way I'd want it, it comes to around $1550 pre-tax. Shame about the USB ports, though.
Would be interesting to get a nice web cam too but that is less important to me. I'm also not a huge "thinness" type, thicker is fine if it isn't heavier.
I suspect if all of what you listed are actually hard requirements, the only way you'd ever get that is if you built your own - source an industrial 4:3 panel+controller, find the smallest Ryzen board with ECC support and get a Ryzen Pro APU (none of the ThinkPads will boot ECC SODIMMS on their boards, despite Pro APUs having nominal unvalidated ECC support) - you could try your luck with an A320TM or otherwise, might need to go embedded Epyc and an M.2 display adapter (like the SM750 ones). You could probably build a "tablet" form factor that's reasonably thin (<30mm?) and light (and use an external USB-C PD compatible chargers/battery packs and simple DC conversion to make life easier on the power side).
With Dell at 17” and paid Linux support you have to move to the Precision line.
I wish Dell would just have a single line of quality Linux compatible laptops you could buy off the shelf and know would always work.
[1] https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/faqs/ami-aptio-v-vs-core...
> Due to how lightweight coreboot is, it will offer better performance and lower power consumption. For example, the LabTop Mk IV combined with coreboot will offer approximately 8% more performance and around 20% longer battery life (with a record of 13 hours and 42 minutes for general use).
(1) signed open source
(2) unsigned open source
(3) signed proprietary
(4) unsigned proprietary
In some cases I might rank #3 as the worst option if it prevents me from editing the firmware binary (to fix a security bug myself or to remove tracking info like a serial number), reverse engineering the firmware to verify it (because signed code is often encrypted as well), or installing alternate firmware that might be more secure.
It feels like most companies assume that you must want the standard layout for the country you're currently living in, when personally I just want a us layout.
Do wish they had some more options for the display, but still looks like a pretty compelling and reasonably priced product.
So you can charge over USB-C, but only if you buy a C-to-C cable and tie up the single USB-C port.
I feel like a barrel jack may be more resilient, if you're plugging it in twice a day.
But this laptop is missing:
- a second USB-C. - You don't need that HDMI if you have enough USB-C, since you can turn them into what ever port you need. - Why the fuck do we still have USB-2 port ? - We really need to have option for the screen, 1080p is not enough for a lot of people. I like to have as much screen pixel has possible (because I can display more line of code).
HDMI is great when you're doing presentations all over the place, no need to keep track of dongles, most places I present at uses HDMI.
USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only have a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB sticks I come across when consulting are in fact USB-A.
If you're out after as much screen estate as possible, external monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for people on the go.
Then you only have an HDMI dongle. Until you present at one that use display port, someone can give you a display port dongle.
> USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only have a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB sticks I come across when consulting are in fact USB-A.
I know that, I m not against it at all. Just, can we USB-2 retire now ?
> If you're out after as much screen estate as possible, external monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for people on the go.
I code on the go and I don't want to be on a small resolution laptop when I m not at home.
- f1-f12 aren't split in 4-keys blocks
- backspace, enter, etc. aren't the right-most keys. No additional spacing too on the right
- cursor block with crippled up/down
Touch-typing would be a nightmare. But backlight, yeah...
(and those aren't speaker grills either; just aesthetic markings)
Which ZBook do you own and which Linux do you run on it?
I run NixOS on it.
ThinkPads are unfortunately uncontested.
I don't quite know to describe sticking, but it's like when an INU (or a strain gauge in this case) fails to properly self calibrate, and it decides that an objectively false input is true. Something similar to video game controllers with "stick drift," but not quite the same afaik.
Aside: Ultimately, I can take it or leave it w.r.t. the trackpoint. A good touchpad can do wonders. In tight spaces I use my thumbs then rely on decent tap-to-click and inertial dragging implementations (present since ~2008). Though in the recent years, I haven't had to commute to work by train or bus anymore, nor have I had to really travel by airplane.
When typing, I mostly rely on keyboard commands for text-heavy work. I do find quite a bit of use in many thinkpad's KB layout still preserving home/end/insert/pgup/pgdn without needing to resort to "fn" key twister games, even if newer Thinkpad layouts are worse and worse for this (insert key got eaten by fn in some newer laptops, and there are obviously longstanding debates over the 7row vs 6 row). None of the griping about the "swapped" ctrl/fn key positions would even matter if functions weren't being hidden behind fn keys in the first place, negating the need for a fn key at all.
I do appreciate the thinkpad's clustered f1-f12 keys, which make common f keys quicker and easier to find.
I've never used the touchpad on any of my thinkpads.
I think Lenovo have been okay stewards of decent laptops. Not great, especially relative to newer developments on the market.
> Intel® Core® 0 th generation processors
> Ryzen™ 0 processor
> Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory
And so on.
On the design downsides (imho): Why MicroSD? There's enough space to put a BD-RE drive, not to mention full-size SD. The battery is not user-serviceable, judging by the looks. Not made of 18650, not hot-swappable. And the power button... there... err... ugghh... just.. WHY?? (I'd definitely hit it instead of DEL, which was placed there an all of my previous laptops).
The StarBook claims 10 and probably achieves less (everyone does).
The base specs are roughly comparable, except i3 vs M1 and the high resolution screen on the Mac.
The site is quoting me $883 vs $999.
Even ignoring the CPU difference, the battery life alone is probably worth the $100, let alone the display.
I understand the value some place on its openness, but it’s not even a medium sacrifice. It’s pretty big.
If your goal is to have a Linux workstation then buying a Mac is pretty dumb.
There's open, closed, and then there's the crap Apple pull off. None of their devices are even slightly serviceable or upgradeable. RAM, disk, battery are all, physically or otherwise, fixed for the whole life of the machine. Add the huge premiums they charge for going from 8GB RAM to 16, or similar in storage, makes the sacrifice much more bearable.
I really don't understand the appeal of laptops, it only makes sense for the people that is really on the move like university students or blogger. Even then, they only need cheap laptop for browsing (cue memory hod jokes). That or you prefer to do your work at public spaces like libraries or cafes.
What's the point of spending huge sums of money on a laptop that performs 1/3 compared to its PC equivalent? You're also stuck with that keyboard and monitor for the rest of its natural life.
mobility - You can do your work in places other you workplaces/home. Change of scenery/environment is trivial. even inside your own house, you can work from your own bedroom, kitchen, lounge, garden, wherever you want.
Your last point is baffling, really. Just treat it like any PC. If you dont want to use the screen/keyboard/trackpad just connect what you want to the laptop.
Actually I dont see the point of mini PC. Theyre just desktop that you can lug without monitor and any input devices. What's the point of spending huge sums of money on a mini PC that performs 1/2.9 compared to its PC equivalent?
It's cheaper for the same specs; for example this StaBook with the 5800U is €1074, but their mini-PC with the same CPU is €786: €288 cheaper! You can also put a 2.5" SSD in it next to the MMC drive (my E585 also allows this, but many laptops don't). And for a lot of "serious work" I use my USB keyboard and HDMI screen anyway: the laptop doesn't really give any advantages here.
And yes, I do more than just web browsing. Mid-range gaming (no, I can't play the latest graphics-heavy titles on this kind of hardware, but I don't mind), development, etc.
A desktop computer would be like a ball and chain against that level of freedom.
I highly doubt that the ergonomics of the hammock setup you have going are any good. And by ergonomics, I mean RSI and other related posture injuries.
StarBook ~1000€
Librem 14 ~1250€
Framework ~925€
StarLite ~500€ (available soon)
Pinebook Pro ~250€ (out of stock)
Raspberry Pi 400 ~100€ (not a true laptop, but interesting)
That said, it seems like you should only go for the more popular devices so you don't run into stupid weirdness with drivers, even in popular *nix distros (4 GB of RAM just wasn't enough for usable Windows), for example, that manufacturer i linked had problems with the fingerprint scanner in the model i got.
Of course, what i'm after might be better for those who prefer desktop computing for most tasks and only need something for being on the go occasionally (or just are frugal, like me, due to only being able to make savings slowly).
EDIT: sorry, i meant QHD (1440p) (2560x1440)
After the popularity of 4K, somebody noticed that they could start calling 1080p 2K to make it sound better than 1080p. If you say 3 MP, does that sound even better? I mean, 3,000,000 is more then 2000 right?
My XPS 17 from 2020 has a worse trackpad than my 2012 MB Air.
My advice is to try out the trackpad on a laptop before you buy it if this is something that matters to you, not trust the opinions of Internet strangers.
I can’t disagree, but trying out Mac hardware is far easier than trying PC hardware. I can walk into an Apple store and try all the major hardware variations.
I had to get my XPS 17 based on online reviews. Because I can’t go out and try it. Buying PC laptops is the very definition of trusting internet strangers.
This really applies to most products, especially those that you interact with so frequently and directly. It's one reason that in the EU you have a 14-day "right of withdrawal" for all purchases made at a distance (most commonly being internet purchases).
The XPS isn't a great example of the best PC hardware, but it IS a pretty good example of the best laptop performance one can get for the price of an iPhone. ^^
Framework working great now.
(The rest of the laptop is equally bad, but that's a different story.)
Laptops these days are RIDICULOUS, poorly-designed, wanna-be Jony Ive slabs that look pretty and are frustrating. We had good designs years ago! What happened?! They've gotten hard to use unless you're a coffee-shop blogger, they used to be easy from kitchen-table user to weekend coder.
Is there a Linux tablet that can both act like a tablet and also be the screen (and heart) of a developers "laptop" if paired with a external keyboard?
Some kind of detachable "hub" that gives more IO options is optional.
Edit: it’s ROG Flow Z13
Basically a laptop sans keyboard, display, and internal battery.
Every other specs are configurable or look decent enough, and it seems to be a well thought, very competent product. I image not getting a screen on-par with current macbooks for instance to be something that was just not feasible, and clearly not an oversight.
You know what I'd buy? A proven laptop brand that a third party revamped/Coreboot-ed/etc. and resold. These mediocre, unproven, semi-bespoke laptops with third-rate keyboards and so-so screens (the two features that really matter to me) are never compelling enough.
Though I basically only use it plugged in to external everything and frankly would prefer to use a desktop computer, so I guess even after a few months I can't say whether it's a good mobile device.
https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...
linux does NOT SUPPORT fractional scaling.
1 year warranty? The EU requires 2 years, and they're based in the UK. But the UK dropped out of the EU, and that lost consumers EU rights.
I personally would love to run one of these for work, but IT no likey Linux boxes. Will have to upgrade to an M1 sooner or later (my 2015 MBP is on its last legs).
Wanted a decent, light (physically light I mean) Linux laptop at that started at less than 900€, so probably not more than 1100/1200 after some ram/CPU tweaking.
Anyone know any similar options for that size?
This is such a terrible-time(opportunity wise) to build/buy a laptop:
On the one hand, the newer much more energy efficient intel cpu's 12xxx are out, and if you want to go Ryzen, you should wait for the new Ryzen Rembrandt(?) APU (new GPU RDNA2)
Still looks very nice :)
Would love to go back to a PC running Linux but for the time being macOS + Brew on MacBook Air/14" is the way to go due to the battery life and performance.
Oh and my 14" as a heck of a screen.
both intel and amd models use their respective igpu, so it's unlikely you're going to have a pleasant experience trying to drive those displays without an egpu
I don’t think I could stand that.
Is that a UK thing, or is the US layout also off center?
I've been burned in recent years by trying to use AMD stuff with Linux and just running into even more weird, minor hardware incompatibilities than usual. For now I would not buy an AMD laptop again.
It was looking good until this. Why not USB-C ?
> Intel® Core® 0 th generation processors
> Ryzen™ 0 processor
> Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory
> Up to 0 hrs battery life
> Up to 0 GB/s SSD read speeds
And more like them later in the page (like the 0° viewing angle on the 0″ 0×0 display).
Amusing.
(Aside: I wish people would stop doing scroll-linked transitions of any kind for regular content. It just slows everything down for no good reason. Let me see the stuff immediately as I scroll; don’t make it take another few hundred milliseconds until you fade the content in, or a second until you show the correct number.)
Personally I don’t have a problem with scroll linked transitions but the user should have the choice.
Do not hijack scrolling. Use CSS scroll snap if you feel like it, but don't do anything beyond that.
(To be clear, this comment is a tangent — TFA doesn't hijack scrolling. I see the same hilarious 0s everywhere effect though.)
While the hamburger menu doesn't work (it should, these can be done in CSS with no need for JS) there appear to be no number animations for me, just the correct numbers.
>0th gen Intel processor
>0GB of memory
>0hrs of battery life
>0GB/S SSD write speed
Secondly, the reasons one would want to choose a Linux/Windows laptop over an Apple Silicon are so obvious I'm sure you know them already. Many people use software that runs best (or only runs) on Windows or Linux or any x86 computer. Also, Apple's default software is undesirable to some people for a plethora of reasons that have been repeated ad nauseam on HN. And the raw performance of Intel/AMD processors better than that of equally priced Apple alternatives, with comparable performance at iso-power (see e.g. [1] or numbers from [2][3]).
Apple Silicon's success has been very impressive, and Apple laptops are well built, but they hardly makes its competitors obsolete as Apple's greatest proponents seem to want people to believe. The fact of the matter is that an Apple silicon laptop is useless to someone who does not want to commit to the Apple ecosystem.
[1] https://youtu.be/X0bsjUMz3EM
[2] https://www.notebookcheck.net/These-Apple-M1-Cinebench-R23-s...
Why would I pay ~$930 for this, instead of buying an M1 Air? The comment you're responding to hit the nail on the head - once you've gone fan-less and sleek, it's really hard to go back.
Few vendors, if any, hit the quality feel of Apple's products.