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Comment by Tsiklon | Hacker News Reader

I think Apple see iMovie and GarageBand as the entry point into funnelling interested users towards Final Cut and Logic Pro when they’re ready to reach for something more capable

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I honestly don't understand their strategy with Final Cut and Logic Pro. These apps can't make very much money, they are a suspiciously good value and they never upsell you on anything. Logic Pro cost like $300 over a decade ago, it still costs $300 today, and all major updates in that time have been free for existing users. Compare that to a competitor like Ableton Live which has cost like $800 since Ableton Suite 8 and major upgrades have come out every 3-5 years and cost a few hundred dollars to upgrade. Or compare it to Pro Tools which now costs $300 for 1 year of a subscription license.

So it really doesn't seem like funneling Garage Band users to Logic is a very high priority for Apple. More likely Garage Band and maybe even Logic Pro are loss leaders to show that the mac is a platform for creatives.

On a related note I never understood why they killed off Aperture which was beloved by many photographers, why didn't they keep a similar upgrade path from the free Photos app -> Aperture like they did for Garage Band -> Logic Pro? Seems like another indication that they really don't like to be in the pro software business, they are only there reluctantly at this point.

Final cut pro supposedly has around 2.5 Million users. Many of them buy expensive Macs and other Apple products. The software uses the latest features from Apple's hardware, which gives users an incentive to keep upgrading.

I think they keep the software more affordable to attract new (starting out) users. Then eventually they will hopefully go for a Mac studio or something.

Another question you could ask: why not make these pro tools free? I am guessing that they are using the income as an internal development budget. Should be sufficient to afford the development I think.

Final Cut is also suggested as an add-on after customizing a Mac for purchase.

I suspect the pricing has something to do with making that just low enough people to check the box.

I am also suspicious of this flow, it too feels very un-optimized. I think it has existed since back in the days where you had to buy software in a box to install off of a cd-rom. I think they even frame it as this add-on software will come pre-installed on your new mac, like that is a big convenience so you don't have to go out and buy it separately. But now obviously the alternative is you can just one-click purchase it later from the mac app store. They don't even bother giving you some small 10% discount or something for buying it alongside the computer. I wonder how many people do actually check that box and add it on.

It’s sketch.

If it weren't for Final Cut Pro, I wouldn't have upgraded to a Mac Studio. Not as big a business as iOS hardware but it has a halo effect.

It probably has a small dedicated team, and the sales revenue easily covers their salaries and any overhead.

I don't get why niche programs like that within larger companies are the exception.

The pro apps are probably paying for themselves, but their purpose is to sell hardware, both directly because you want that functionality, and to serve as a benchmark for other pro apps especially when you have shiny new silicon to take advantage of.

1. FCP sells Apple hardware.

2. It’s also a “halo” product. A showcase of what Apple’s computers are capable of.

Is there a Linux company that tries to do high end graphics as their main MO ? (So slick design laptop, but all Linux)

Yup, and I am still a bit salty Apple discontinued Aperture, which was to iPhoto as Final Cut Pro is to iMovie. I am paying for Lightroom Classic and there are still UI idiosyncrasies that makes no sense to me that just clicked in Aperture (Lightroom CC? Let's not even talk about that version...)

As someone who designed the replacement database layer (that literally improved the speed of access by an order of magnitude, after I promised the VP it would do in an off-the-cuff meeting, and my director face-palmed at hearing me say it) and then managed the new graphics engine team, I feel your pain.

Aperture was fundamentally too small a market for Apple to justify keeping a 'pro-app' team working on it. The concept was a high-cost semi-pro feature-set, and the market soon decided it cost too much and the price had to fall. Once that ball started rolling, the doom was set.

Still, I went on to do more interesting things at Apple - the latest being writing the client<-->server team bridge for 'Hide My Email' to let apps like Safari and Mail integrate into the server-side anonymous-email-mapping-to-a-known-address facility. Lots of cool tech in there, under the skin.

The reason why I love apple is exactly because the tech is there, but “under the skin”.

They are probably using ML or AI whatever to get this new Magic Movie thing working. But that’s not their press release, unlike Google which would be parroting this as a major tech thing. Apple goes for the human.

Me too.

I'm using Lightroom CC, because I'd migrated away from Lightroom Classic several years before.

I can't begin to understand why things like "open selected images as layers in Photoshop" _still_ isn't possible in Lightroom CC. It works really well on my iPad Pro, though, and gives me 90%+ of the features I need for my workflow there. I just wish they provided an accessible scripting environment that I could use to automate things.

DarkTable - https://www.darktable.org/ - is a free and opensource alternative to Lightroom but the UI takes some time getting used to.

What stopped you from sticking with Classic or moving to Davinci Resolve?

Resolve? How is that a replacement for Lightroom Classic?

I've been looking at CaptureOne myself as a replacement...

Do it. CaptureOne is the only thing I've found after Aperture that I like. Still miss Aperture, but CaptureOne is great, and they improve it frequently.

I've been dragging my feet because I Keep getting a friends and family discount on Lightroom Classic from an Adobe employee friend. But I really, really should...

If I can also move away from Illustrator for map making, I'll be set. (Read: I really need to spend some time with Affinity Designer to be sure it meets my needs, then just cut the Adobe cord.)

My mistake

I haven't tried in a while, but CaptureOne has very limited lens support compared to Lightroom. I wonder if that's changed.

I really miss Aperture. It was a very nice piece of software, however I'm using Darktable in these days, and it's seriously no slouch either.

You also can’t discount how effective they are as marketing tools to signal “Apple is the computer company for artists and creatives”.

Yeah that’s fair too

Yeah maybe, I think most other companies tho would recognize that all of that is such a small part of their business and cut it off.

I’m so happy Apple doesn’t.

Yes, this is one of the ways Apple succeeds -- by being able to make management decisions like spending money on GarageBand and iMovie that would get cut in any other type of typical Corporate America VP structure.

So who made the call to kill iWeb? Or other iLife products that disappeared?

Not just Final Cut and Logic Pro, but the Apple ecosystem itself. I've long lusted after Google Pixel's camera quality but the three reasons I will never switch are iMessage, GarageBand, and iMovie. My literal 4 year old son can use iMovie on the iPad and it is a great way for us to construct family memories (I load in the clips and then he decides the order, the music, and the editing)

They are also the reason that Macs turn up in secondary schools in the UK

Alas for Aperture

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