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Comment by chrismeller | Hacker News Reader

So the main takeaway here for me is that more low budget (“indie” or “film festival”, my terms) movies are getting to theaters and being loved by critics, but people hate them.

My wife and I have a rule in our household. Anything that was awarded at a film festival (Sundance in particular) I will not watch with her. This analysis backs up the feelings I’ve had that lead to that agreement…

Any movie that does well with critics or at a film festival has “a strong message” or “teaches us something”. That’s all well and good, but I don’t need these expensive (€20/ticket) modern fables. I’m paying to be entertained, not to be lectured to.

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>Any movie that does well with critics or at a film festival has “a strong message” or “teaches us something”.

If you find that every time you watch a film festival movie you are being lectured too, I think it has more to do with your wife's film choices, not the indie circuit. Nicolas Cage's Pig was a very well received movie at plenty of film festivals last year, and it's just about a chef searching for a pig.

Yes, I’m sure there is a movie here and there. Honestly, I don’t care enough to even compare the list anymore, that’s how we came up with the rule.

Edit: and I think we’ll all try to forgive you for recommending anything with Nicholas Cage…

> Yes, I’m sure there is a movie here and there.

It's not here and there. Almost no art film lectures or has a strong message. It wouldn't be an art film if it did, in most cases, and art films are known for subtlety and conveying sophisticated emotion.

Speaking of Nicolas Cage, he did a thoughtful Reddit AMA a few days ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/tzxev3/hello_im_nic...

I could eat a peach for hours..

>> Any movie that does well with critics or at a film festival has “a strong message” or “teaches us something”.

Seems arbitrarily limiting. I'd say you're missing out on some pretty cool and entertaining movies. If you don't like arthouse movies, that's obviously your choice... just seems a bit silly to not watch a movie because someone else liked it.

> Any movie that does well with critics or at a film festival has “a strong message” or “teaches us something”. That’s all well and good, but I don’t need these expensive (€20/ticket) modern fables. I’m paying to be entertained, not to be lectured to.

FWIW, they are not lecturing; there is no strong message. I suspect you are finding what you look for, but it's hardly ever there. I've seen many, many art films, and I can hardly remember much of that.

In fact, the usual criticism AFIAK is that the art world lacks morality and embraces relativism.

What sorts of films don't lecture?

>What sorts of films don't lecture?

the kind that confirm my existing ideology.

i don't know if you've noticed, but people who do things that i understand are totally normal, and people who are different from me have dumb ideas. it's annoying when they talk.

Blah, blah, blah…

Not every moment has to be a teachable one.

Most entertainment-oriented films. There's a big difference between "has a message" (which those usually do include) and "lecture" aka "beat you over the head with".

I think most blockbuster "entertainment" movies are MORE heavy handed in their preaching. The big differentiator for me is that they preach what is already assumed. It's not that they don't lecture you, it's that they lecture you in what you already agree with. In that sense entertainment-movies are more like sermons from your pastor. It's a reframing of a story you've already been told a million times, so your brain can just switch off and absorb the message uncritically.

Yes. The typical modern blockbuster constantly hits you over the head with its messages of "family" or "finding yourself" or "overcoming obstacles" of whatever like you're still in grade school. Compare that to something like No Country for Old Men - a movie with a much more nuanced set of ideas. Or even to older blockbusters like Die Hard which are more consistently focused on the action and keep the moralizing to a minimum.

> What sorts of films don't lecture?

Almost every sort of film, IME. I can hardly recall a film that 'lectured', if we mean the same thing, and it would be panned if it did.

For one thing, if the filmmaker can't convey things without lecturing, they are in completely the wrong job. Does a painter have to add call-out boxes with labels? Second, they almost never have a specific message, but depict the world - art holds a mirror to the world (very generally speaking).

Generally, popular films outside of documentaries don't lecture. It may be that you feel insecure and talked down to? Do you feel that way in normal human conversation?

To cover the comments, particularly the guy whose comment is dead, yes, raunchy comedies. Also 90% of the Blockbuster movies.

Perhaps I’d have done better if I said I don’t like being preached at.

For an example, Juno: Yes, I get it, unwed mothers are bad. Should I watch a Lifetime special about it just so I can cry about how horrible things are?

The message you got from "Juno" is "unwed mothers are bad"?

Wow.

> For an example, Juno: Yes, I get it, unwed mothers are bad.

What you perceive is your experience, but I think there might be other things there for you to percieve. My experience is 180 degrees different and I've never heard anyone say that about Juno. I thought it was very sympathetic, a movie about compassion, innocence and love overriding hardship.

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