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Comment by engineeringwoke | Hacker News Reader

Yet the EU has better standards and works better for all citizens of the EU in comparison to the United States, despite the cultural and language barriers.

You could have definitely said this twenty years ago and I wouldn't have blinked an eye, but times change. They are doing it... technology and data help governments administrate more efficiently over large land masses. Italy and Germany also have similar federal systems and, again, work better together than we do, although Italy is probably somewhat compareable. At least they have culture lol

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The EU did not arrive at those standards together or not implement them from a central authority. If anything, the EU serves as a success story of allowing states to implement their own changes and slowly converge at a target.

The Netherlands and Romania do not need to have a shared approach and timeline for dealing with homelessness. the Dutch can do it specifically because they don't have to get 27 states and 440 million people on board with their policy.

Similarly, Abortion rights vary widely throughout the EU, and are generally more restrictive than the US. This is understood as a state issue, and is not a perpetual wedge issue for EU policy.

If you want unions, socialized healthcare, public services and the other trappings of European societies you need to start thinking about immigration and demographics. The very high levels of immigration (both legal and illegal) into the US is what makes it difficult for workers to exercise leverage because they can easily be replaced by people who will work for much less compensation. Ethnically diverse workforces are also less likely to unionize (e.g. this is a factor Amazon looks at when assessing unionization risk). It seems to me that socialist policies can only work in relatively ethnically homogeneous societies, which is what you see in Europe. Although that is now changing there too: it will be interesting to see whether they are able to maintain generous social services in the face of major demographic change.

There's a lot to unpack here. Western Europe took in more immigrants than the United States did last year, by numbers and percentage. You could make an argument that illegal immigration tips that towards the US, but I don't think that's true.

> relatively ethnically homogeneous societies, which is what you see in Europe

So, this one. It's always hard to say because European countries don't measure "race" in the way that the US does. The concept of knocking on peoples' doors and asking them what race they are is absurd to the average European. It's funny because this discussion kind of lays clear that the concept is poorly defined and the American conception of "race" isn't really true. Other than the phenotypical differences between east asians, blacks, and red-haired whites; there is so much variance amongst the rest that there is hardly anything you could call a "race" if you mean a demonstrably different genetic phenotype.

If you think that the Netherlands is a white ethno-state, then I'm not sure what to tell you. It's not, not even close. Germany brought a million Syrians into its borders a few years ago. The only part of Europe that doesn't have large-scale immigration and white ethno-states is eastern Europe. Even Scandinavia has pretty large-scale immigration at this point, except for Finland (also not a part of Scandinavia really, but important to clarify). They need the people. If you've ever been to Oslo, it is very obvious why. The place is empty.

The US Border Patrol encountered over 100,000 attempted illegal crossings every month in 2021. It's estimated that each year somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 people cross the border illegally without being caught or overstay their visa. There are nearly 50 million foreign born persons in the US total, about double the rate per capita of Europe.

Europe is on the same demographic trajectory - the current statistics put Europe where the US was in the 1990s. Focusing on unions as an example, since the 1990s, the US has lost approximately half the union membership rate in the private sector. This is in part due to immigration and in part due to offshoring, both mechanisms serve to weaken the power of the domestic worker.

You may be right that "race" isn't perfectly well defined, but socially and culturally it does exist and it plays a role in how people act. For example, even in highly diverse and progressive places you find clear racially segregated patterns of residence, with major downstream effects in areas like education, employment and healthcare. This is true in both the US and Europe. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that phenomenon.

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