Comment by dpifke | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dpifke | Hacker News Reader

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Part of the irony here is the FAA enforces strict deadlines upon those it regulates, but seems to ignore deadlines set for itself or by Congress.

My medical certificate is due for renewal in August. I have no ability to tell the FAA, "sorry, it's been delayed, I'll have an update for you in a few months."

Edit to add: Lest this come off as generic complaining, here's an example of people dying because the FAA failed to do in a timely manner what Congress repeatedly told them to do:

Ten years ago, Section 203 of the Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010 mandated that the FAA create an electronic pilot records database (PRD), which was intended to improve the timeliness and efficiency of the PRIA records retrieval process by providing hiring operators and DAs with direct access to pilots’ FAA, NDR, and former employer records in a single database. By 2016, the FAA had not yet implemented the PRD, and Congress imposed an April 30, 2017, deadline, which the FAA also missed. Although the FAA has begun phasing in the use of the PRD, the PRD is not yet fully functional; it contains only pilots’ FAA records and is available to hiring operators for use on a voluntary basis.

On March 30, 2020, the FAA published a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) that outlined PRD functions.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/... [PDF] (page 49)

the FAA enforces strict deadlines upon those it regulates, but seems to ignore deadlines set for itself or by Congress.

I think this just comes with the bureaucratic territory. My wife works in healthcare finance, especially with CMS on Medicare reimbursement. Having watched her doing this for a couple decades now, I can tell you that if you miss a CMS deadline by a day, they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks. But the deadlines set for their own operations are purely aspirational. They seem to kinda maybe try to come near those dates, but they're almost universally slipped. Adding insult to injury, when CMS misses a date to publish new regulations or whatever, that doesn't necessarily mean that my wife gets a corresponding number of days to submit her responses: she's often got to absorb it on her side, working faster because the government works slower.

Agreed on bureaucracy. Bureaucracy and the imbalance of power is rampant in the U.S., and it concerns me. I don't know if people ever did, but it really feels like nobody gives a shit about their customers or citizens, as far as companies and the U.S. government, respectively, are concerned.

Last year, through a fluke since I ended up being away from my apartment for several months, I found out my gas company had incorrectly installed the gas meters in my apartment. Thus, I had been paying the upstairs neighbors' gas bill (and vice versa) for over five years. It took 7-9 months to get the thousands of dollars they owed me. And that was after basically calling them every two weeks, going through no-shows of their technicians, and arguing with them that they needed to go back the entire time I had overpaid. They wanted to only go back two or three years because that's only how much data they kept. Which fuck that, because after arguing about it, they were somehow magically able to go back the full duration of my account with them, "finding" the data. We literally hunted for a house and bought one in the in-between time of discovering the issue and getting my money. Can you imagine being able to tell some company you owe money to "I'll get it to you when I get to it, I'm really busy right now" or that "well, my records only go back so far, so I can't do anything about money I owe you before a certain time"? You'd be submitted to a credit agency and completely wrecked.

In this and more of these scenarios, it is absolutely the most remote possibility that you can act like this towards companies and the government when they want something from you. It really bothers me to my core that we have no power against companies or government. This is what it's like to live in an oligarchy.

Well...maybe. I will say USG is super on top of their shit when it comes to passports overseas. Total adhesion to protocol, and well thought out protocol at that, I have to recognize that in the face of your accusation of incompetence. You could be right too, not saying you're not. But I feel obliged to vindicate them.

It's a good point- there are different agencies and even departments within agencies with different leaderships and cultures of how things should be done. I've also only ever had good experiences as an American overseas dealing with passport/embassy issues in general (although it sounds terrible for anyone trying to immigrate) but other agencies are an absolute nightmare. USGS is doing their best but I think it's going to take a seismic event to reform the culture in some of these places.

EDIT: Using "you" rhetorically, not accusing parent poster.

I actually have heard of this, despite not witnessing it much. Dark side of the moon, but yeah...I guess they must have some way of detecting my vibe, like I believe in paying taxes, not only when rich, but with little regard for how poor as well, and have never met a single person who agrees with me...well in the Bible yes, Christ paid 100% taxes. Just us two. Who knows if G-men have a way of detecting that, that would be so weird, like actually find a person who doesn't value the taxes they pay at 0%, which is identical to valuing the government at 0, and the work they do at 0, and even the help they provide you personally at 0 (otherwise you would value taxes at say .000001% of what you pay because that's how much is coming back to you, but that's my personal reasoning without any input from anybody claiming this, I've never heard an accountant make this claim), so I guess...if they pick up on people thinking they're worth literally fucking nothing in every way and in everything they do...they don't like that, and don't want to help you. Although they still help tons of people regardless. They may resent it though. And maybe if people weren't so tax-averse, but not just for what other people have to pay, but what they themselves have to pay (I've heard of this in Sweden, that's where I got these ideas), then the government would respect taxes differently because it's not as adversarial (putting myself in tax-hating shoes here, trying to see the moon's dark side from Earth with my imagination, because I sure can't do it with my empathy).

Now I'm starting to see why I disagree with everyone in this regard, little by little. Everyone hates taxes (meaning want to pay the minimum), except me. So everyone has an incredibly shitty relationship with the government (according to them, that's all I hear people talk about), except me. Maybe there's some link between those two things.

Note also if I choose I can reduce how much extra I pay unilaterally, I don't need literally anybody's permission to reduce what I contribute down to the near-minimum amounts like everyone else. Like if I judge that a government hates me with true hatred, I can develop the same hatred for paying taxes to it as anybody else.

The common denominator here is lack of competition. Utilities are regulated monopolies. No competition means no incentive to improve or provide better services at lower cost.

I wish there was some sort of federal law that mandated reciprocal deadline leniency in this kind of situation.

Imagine a scenario where a government department was held to the same standard that they hold others to.

Imagine that.

Sadly, Washington is the largest special interest group in Washington.

Or, if a deadline is blown, the agency has to either approve the permit, or ask a judge for an extension based on actual need.

This sounds like a good idea, could we extend it to the employee/employer relationship as well? Where your bosses gets held to the same standards they hold you?

If you think that's legally or practically unworkable, well, there's your answer.

I was an amaetur pilot for some time, enough time to conclude from experience and talking to colleagues in the realm of aviation that regulatory institutions across the world enforce the strict (and reasonably so) rules on pilots and smaller companies, while turning a blind eye to big airlines, manufacturers and succumbing to political incentives.

> succumbing to political incentives

Why are people surprised when government institutions succumb to political incentives?

I once had a discussion with a PhD research scientists who said how great NSF funding was because they made funding decisions completely on scientific merit. I pointed out all the ways that it obviously allocated funds based on bias and politics.

Yes, I agree with your point. But I was talking about nastier cases of corruption, for example, in certain latin american countries some low-cost airlines between central and south america got approved for operation, some without even satisfying basic requirements, but god forbid small businesses didn't. After some years, these same airlines filed for bankruptcy or got suspended. The kicker? It was discovered they were never profitable, and have since been suspected to be involved in dropping of foreign illegal workers, coming to their destinations as tourists. The most obvious giveaway apart from the latter is that if a carrier is low-cost, it most definitely should have at least a set of profitable domestic flights, and the ones I mentioned above didn't. One of the politicians suspected to be involved (this started under her presidency) is now sitting at the top of a United Nations office.

"The government has a defect. It's _potentially_ democratic. Corporations have no defects. They're pure tyrannies."

- Noam Chomsky

Tell us about the last time a corporation ordered you to do anything?

A corporation can change the world around you to your massive detriment without your input. Poison your river, pollute your air, etc. They don't have to tell you to do anything to harm you without recourse.

You can sue them for harm done to you. People do it all the time.

you make a good point and i agree with you, especially today.

but, to answer your question in earnest: a long time ago - east india company? dole fruit?

TEIC was a quasi government operation, not a corporation as we know them today.

agreed.

but does that also apply (though obviously not to the same extent i’d admit) to say halliburton?

I would be interested to know why you quit.

I took some classes, but never got the license - it seems very high risk to fly once every few months in terms of skill degradation from disuse, and I never got any real excitement out of just going up to fly a rented Cessna when it's $150+ an hour, so I don't see myself just doing for that. Actually "flying cross-country" also seems impractical without skill upkeep.

Seems like the stereotype "it's for rich bored people" is mainly true unless it's a primary hobby or people are going for airline pilot in the long run.

P.S. Another random thought, but I feel like I would need to just spend 2 days straight landing and taking off to get comfortable with it. Like take-off, get some altitude, transition to slow flight, practice approach pattern, fully land, turn around, take off again. Seems like the classes spend a lot of time on stuff that doesn't really happen that much (stalls), stuff that isn't critical (ideal 180 turns within x time), etc.

Yes, I and my father would 'fall' in the category of rich bored people (or being more precise, well-off STEM grads). It's risky, but it was beautiful. Unfortunately, at the time I took the classes I was also writing my thesis which meant sleeping very little (4 hours a day at best), and on top of my college studies I had to commute to the aerodrome 1 hour just to get there in the morning. I was so tired that I'd fall asleep at noon on the ride home. Then one day I crashed the plane on a fence after landing, it was a runway excursion due to my low reflexes and lack of sleep. The plane sustained minor damage and I got out unharmed, insurance covered most of the bill (a couple thousand) and I decided that I would get back to aviation after finishing my academic duties in a different setting, likely as an engineer/numerical analyst. I'm looking into buying smaller aircraft, likely an ultralight plane or a STOL [0]. I just like aviation too much, but I'm not willing to have another brush with death.

In the meantime, two of my acquaintances died instantly after crashing on the slope of a volcano.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOL

I quit flying because I found that I didn't want to go from A to B without having a car on the other end, that "just flying" was pretty boring, that aerobatics was real fun but also a huge commitment, and that I did not care that much after the initial success.

I have about 175 hours, some 25 or so aerobatics (Attitude Aviation, Livermore, under the original owner), most of the time in and around the SF Bay Area. One hour in a glider (Byron)

I started flying at WVFC (West Valley Flying Club) while working at a nearby software company. Mostly during work hours actually, I was pretty bored at work.

I had already done some skydiving - during pre-military training in East Germany. I had had glasses when I grew up and in East Germany you did not fly casually, same with the skydiving, if you were young the goal always was the military career. On the other hand, the state paid for it all. Because of glasses I was under the impression I had no chance to ever be a pilot so I never even tried. Later I stopped needing glasses but never revisited the issue, despite some heavy longing (during youth I subscribed to a monthly East German flying magazine.

When I worked in my boring software job the Piper and Cessna aircraft kept flying right over our lunch area on their landing approach to the airport just two or so miles away. So some day while having lunch, looking up, it finally clicked in my head - I now had actual money and all the East German restrictions where gone, why couldn't I...

Anyway, I really enjoyed it, not just the flying itself but also the system and the discipline it required. Even things like approaches to airports without tower and radio and other procedures.

I increasingly felt that it became too much effort for less and less gain. A whole Sunday afternoon if not more was gone even for less than an hour of aerobatics. Advantage of that type of flying, even if it requires something with a higher hourly rate than a Cessna or a Piper, is that an hour or less is all you need, so in the end you do significantly more "flying" than during cross-country, but you actually safe money and time. During cross-country, as far as the flying is concerned, you mostly just sit there. The processes and procedures can be fun. Still, as I said, I did not really gain anything from flying to some other place, another reason for aerobatics, where you end up at the same airport you started from.

Two images from a relatively cheap but modern positive-G-only acro training aircraft, back then one of Attitude Aviations:

https://i.imgur.com/Rd5VW3R.jpg (trying to take a picture while flying a loop - so I ended up with a terrible loop, but I got the picture)

https://i.imgur.com/4bwJn13.jpg (view of cockpit of Grob 115C acro)

Only replying to this to avoid spam, but really appreciate both perspectives. I think all of this resonates with what I originally described, though I have way less experience than both of you.

I have a good friend now who went in for his third class medical in October 2021, the doctor flagged a prescription he had previously been taking (but was no longer taking), and wanted clarification from the FAA. Now in April, it's still in the "review queue". Meanwhile he's grounded, with no end in sight as to when the answer will be returned.

Not only that, but once it's cleared, the medical date will be retroactive to October, so the renewal clock is ticking the whole time he can't be flying.

The COVID emergency use vaccines should prevent passing a flight physical. This is being widely ignored, apparently.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/av...

'The FAA generally requires at least one-year of post-marketing experience with a new drug before consideration for aeromedical certification purposes.'

That seems like a great example of the FFA getting out of the way of the necessary. Pandemic times are when rules need to be more flexible since we're responding to non-standard conditions.

If that rule wasn't waved pilots would need to chose between being more vulnerable to the pandemic vs. getting to draw an income for a year - that seems a lot worse than some rules being temporarily ignored.

Except it wasn't necessary based on the data. It was necessary based on political pressure from our owners.

First off given that we're in the middle of a pandemic and the vaccine was promoted to keep everyone safe - please stop spreading misinformation about vaccination.

Secondly, regardless of efficacy, most people thought it was necessary for their health and the health of others - so you're placing most level headed people in a position where they would need to chose between declining a completely beneficial treatment or else lose their livelihood.

Lastly, I don't know how it works where you live but up here in Canada I feel distinctly unowned by anyone.

"Misinformation"?

I have been an avid collector of scientific studies about COVID, COVID vaccination, repurposed therapeutics, and PCR test accuracy since 2020. Would you like me to share some of this "misinformation"? You might find it enlightening.

That's protecting the one pilot in exchange for whatever is on the plane in terms of risk.

So do we as a society prefer to have no flights for a year probably including cargo planes - while providing income relief/subsidies to those pilots or do we expect those pilots to go without vaccination and force them to endure a higher mortality rate from COVID?

Cardiac problems with the vaccines are being discovered and cause sudden issues. I would prefer following written rules or changing the rules, instead of ignoring rules.

Dealing with the FAA over medical certification for mere third-class is enough to turn anyone into a government-hating conservative.

True. This is why I advise all of my students who want to be casual fliers only (i.e. not flying for hire) to switch to Basic Med. No need to seek out an AME (any family doctor can do it) and the appointment is only every four years (instead of every two if you are over 45). Even flight instructors can instruct with Basic Med.

I wish. You have to get a third class at least once before you can use Basic Med though.

true, basicmed was a relative disappointment based on what people were originally hoping for.

have you considered sport pilot or lsa?

You can't do either if you've already applied for third class medical.

so a pending (not a denied) class 3 means you can’t fly under lsa? ugh, that sucks.

what about glider or motor glider? same deal?

(i am a private pilot who let his valid class 3 expire, flying under basicmed, getting more into lsa and motorgliders)

Really? After filling the form online, I just went to an AME that I booked and got out of there after perhaps an hour, certificate in hand.

Be glad you have the good fortune to not fall under the incredibly common conditions that get you into the "special issuance" bucket or flat-out denied.

Which would those be?

If you take an SSRI for anything (like a huge percentage of the population), good luck.

you better not be sad!

> here's an example of people dying

You didn't really quote anything that mentions death or injury, could you expand on that?

They linked to a PDF of an accident report for a 767 with 3 deaths, and included a page # to follow for the reference to the issue being relevant - follow it and you will find what you're looking for.

This is an issue with almost every federal agency. Every federal agency has been required to pass an audit since the 90s and the Department of Defense has yet to be able to do it despite being warned multiple times by congress. The issue is there are no consequences for them failing to do it.

"Rules for thee, not for me". What did you think the motto of the elite and the institutions has been forever?

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