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Comment by saevarom | Hacker News Reader

It always amazes me to learn to what lengths end users of software will go without asking for simple fixes like these.

Some years ago, my team created a web-based portal for a local ad agency. Long-running actions that triggered ajax calls would display this hideous, too large, black spinning wheel. Probably there was a bug that caused the spinning wheel to sometimes remain on the screen until you refreshed.

At one point a user contacted us and asked how long the "black sun" as she called it was supposed to be there? We shrugged our shoulders and thought, "maybe a few seconds?". She said she had been working in the app, navigating and clicking right under the spinning wheel, for two whole days before contacting us!

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> It always amazes me to learn to what lengths end users of software will go without asking for simple fixes like these.

To be blunt, most users have been not been conditioned to expect anyone to listen to them. The software comes down from on high with a dictum that says "this is the way things work". Even if there is a way to provide feedback in the app, which often there isn't, it tends to goes straight into the void.

Users need to feel empowered to request changes by being involved in the development process. There are also often larger organizational issues that prevent users from feeling they have a say in how their workplace operates.

I've heard doctors have it worse with people not asking about 'simple fixes' in a timely manner.

Also, consider what the default scenario might be for someone at a job like Olaf: How likely is he to be able to affect change when some part of a process is inefficient? When I was at my first job, the general mood was that one should keep their head down and just do as instructed, since going above and beyond was not encouraged.

That's an interesting perspective. When it comes to medicine, I usually have no idea whether there might be a "simple fix" for some problem. If I ask my doctor about something small, I expect he would just say "yeah, you're getting old" and then bill me $300. So I don't bother. Maybe end users think similarly.

This is America[0], healthcare is a privilege. Unless you're dying, you should never call an ambulance, and should keep an up-to-date list of what hospitals accept your insurance. And, if the doctor is going to prescribe you something, go on your insurance provider's site and see if it or the formulary are covered.

But seriously, how hard should I be expected to think when something seems medically 'off'? My left wrist has been a little 'off' for a few weeks, but WebMD says it shouldn't be carpal tunnel. Instead of seeing a doctor, I'll just google some more and see what I can do myself.

[0] Where applicable

> My left wrist has been a little 'off' for a few weeks

The other side of this is that doctors in america lean heavy towards interventionism. If you go see a doctor, they will do something. Useful or not.

An american doctor will never, for example, say “Hey maybe your chair is too low compared to your desk and you’re putting too much pressure on your wrist” or suggest a series of stretching exercises to do 3x/day for a few weeks until the discomfort goes away. The best you can expect from a doctor is “eh it’s not bad enough for surgery yet, come back in a few years. Take advil or something idk”

I remember going in for a persistent cough. After 5 minutes the doctor decided “this is post nasal drip” (my nose drains into my throat instead of making me sniffly) and prescribed some medicine to take. And I’m like … yo this problem isn’t bad enough to need fixing, I just wanted to know what’s up. Too much intervention can easily make things worse.

When you have an acute problem that’s when american healthcare shines. Chronic and minor stuff, not so much.

A (good) chiropractor will do the first, and a physical therapist will do the second.

You're right about regular MDs though.

Yes, I saw a chiropractor for a while and their immediate advice was to get a better chair and a standing desk, plus some stretches, because I had "grad student syndrome".

> An american doctor will never, for example, say “Hey maybe your chair is too low compared to your desk and you’re putting too much pressure on your wrist” or suggest a series of stretching exercises to do 3x/day for a few weeks until the discomfort goes away. The best you can expect from a doctor is “eh it’s not bad enough for surgery yet, come back in a few years. Take advil or something idk”

Not my experience. I've had doctors that recommended I do stretch exercises for a certain condition I had.

The few times I've been to a doctor in America (I'm not from USA) I got excellent care. They explained the whole thing, told me about options I could take etc. I was very satisfied with the doctors.

Yes it's more expensive than it should be, but that's a different matter.

This is more or less the idea behind [Direct Primary Care](https://www.dpcare.org) – by turning primary care into a monthly subscription, you're encouraged to ask more simple questions to keep yourself in good health, and your doctor is encouraged to keep you healthy so you don't have to come in.

(Not affiliated with this movement and I don't even use it, just think it's a great idea.)

If that app had a "support" link on every page that would pop up a form, pre-filled with recognizably sane defaults that provide the context of the support request, I'd wonder about that user to.

If I had to hunt down "support" somewhere under "about" in the menu or if I was presented with a very generic form, I'd be that user because I'd dread the braindead support conversations I have learned to expect (Seriously, just today a hoster told me to send them a screenshot of the HTTP 504 response their customer UI receives for a javascript request to their ticketing system.... to support@....)

Google has this button for its products, say least for internal users.

Let me tell you, it has helped sometimes. It also regularly gets duped to threads with a few hundred complaints and product people saying it's intentional behavior.

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