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Comment by bluefirebrand | Hacker News Reader

Girls attempt it more, boys succeed more.

It's not entirely unreasonable to suggest that "more attempts overall" = "more troubled"

Maybe boys are overall less troubled than girls but just choose more effective forms of suicide.

Maybe boys choose more effective forms of suicide because they are in fact way more troubled.

Really though, it's not a competition. We should be able to help both boys and girls, in ways that are effective for each group.

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Girls are reported as attempting suicide more. But from the very article we're talking about, boys are repeatedly ignored when they give indications of suicide. And even to the extent that girls do attempt suicide more often, it's relevant that they use it as a cry for help and are more likely to receive that help (still not likely enough to receive it), while boys' intentions in committing suicide are more focused on actually completing it.

I agree it's not a competition. But pointing out demographic trends and that some groups are more likely to commit suicide doesn't mean that you think other groups don't deserve attention and support.

It's unclear why you're telling me it's not a competition for pointing out exactly that; the article does the exact same thing (except with LGBT youth and nonwhite youth), but it'd be silly for someone to come in and say that the author is trying to turn it into a competition.

It's especially galling that you're accusing me of trying to turn it into a competition when the comment I was replying to (and you yourself!) jumped in entirely out of the blue to argue that girls have it worse, while I made no statement that boys have it worse.

> It's especially galling that you're accusing me of trying to turn it into a competition when the comment I was replying to jumped in entirely out of the blue to argue that girls have it worse

Why would you assume my words were "accusing" you of anything, rather than just a general observation as part of a conversation that people are having? Presumably the OP you were responding to would potentially also read my reply to you and also see what I am saying.

Or maybe I was just trying to head off people replying to my own post accusing me of making it into a competition, by making it clear that I have already considered that and agree with it, but still felt the rest of my post was a contribution to the discussion.

You see this in adults because men choose more effective methods of suicide like guns.

According to CDC this is also true for youth. Males use firearms 53% of the time, females only 19%.

Men are more likely to succeed with suicide regardless of the method. Men who overdose on medicine takes much higher dosages and therefore succeeds more often etc.

The reason women don't succeed is because they aren't as serious and therefore chooses dosages or methods where you are very unlikely to die, as can be seen in this study for example:

https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12...

Suicide is really easy if you actually want to die. I assume "attempted suicide" is most often closer to a cry for help than a genuine attempt to end one's life.

"Suicide is really easy if you actually want to die."

It's also really easy to screw it up, and many people do, some even after many attempts.

Not everybody is super diligent in researching the most effective methods, and some people may be genuine in their desire to die but are impulsive about it so may not choose the most effective method in their desperation to kill themselves now.

I'm not sure if we as outsiders are in any position to judge the sincerity of another's wish to die.

> I'm not sure if we as outsiders are in any position to judge the sincerity of another's wish to die.

In individual cases, you may be right. But I think it's best to try to find the truth when talking about something so impactful as suicide as a general phenomenon.

And I am of course not denying that genuine attempts at suicide can fail. But that seems unlikely to be the key to understanding the massive gender disparities at hand here.

One of the bizarre things is that some people, when they commit suicide, are concerned about leaving a messy corpse. They don't want to use a gun, or a knife, because it would leave such a mess. So instead, they chug a bottle of pills, immediately call 911 when they realize they don't want to die, and get their stomach pumped.

Unsatisfied with good suicide attempts going to waste, 4chan has found a method that's cheap, widely available, effective even with medical attention, and leaves the body completely unmarked.

I'm not sure about with children, but with adults men are more likely to use a gun, at least in the U.S. I think partly that's due to access, but it may also point to some other gender difference.

Even in places with strictly limited access to guns (e.g. the U.K., Japan), you see the same pattern of men committing suicide at a higher rate than women. The hypothesis I find most compelling is that the intentions behind suicides are different between the sexes, though it's also likely that women are generally more hesitant to use methods that disfigure the body (and are more effective) than are men, even when intention is controlled for.

I think it's something along the lines of the latter--men are more likely to use violent means that are more effective where women are more likely to use means such as pills, which are less effective (but can still lead to permanent damage). Additionally, violent means lead to instant death more often so there's less opportunity to back out or for someone else to intervene.

So there are certainly gender differences, but it's not clear that it's a difference of intent.

Helium tank and a plastic bag is the easiest according to Final Exit.

I'm not sure about that. Maybe it's the best solution to the problem of finding an easy way to commit suicide relatively painlessly. If you don't mind experiencing extreme discomfort, there are easier ways to commit suicide. I.e. ways that require less effort.

I can't imagine the amount of effort is relevant if it's your final act. What would you be saving your energy for?

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