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Comment by bko | Hacker News Reader

It sounds like its an internal chat app, presumably meant for business. If people were openly talking about "slave labor" and "vaccine" on any public company slack channels, I would think they'd shut it down at most organizations. I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize. I don't think its unreasonable to make people work when they're on the clock and remove distractions. Many are used to comfortable jobs where they can post memes on slack or comment on social media during the working day, but these jobs are really the exception not the rule.

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> I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize

True, but they can't be discriminatory in how they restrict communications. If they prohibit all non-work discussions on this app that appears to be fine - but not if they only restrict topics that are likely related to organizing. From https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em...

"Also, restrictions on your efforts to communicate with co-workers cannot be discriminatory. For example, your employer cannot prohibit you from talking about the union during working time if it permits you to talk about other non-work-related matters during working time."

Pay raises sound work related to me

I’m sure the employee handbook is setup correctly.

I’m also entirely sure the rule is spottily enforced.

You might be right, but can you imagine an employee handbook that says "all conversation not related to work is prohibited"? Even air traffic controllers occasionally make quips on the radio.

It can be true for the purposes of harassment that enforcement can be inconsistent, and that can work to a certain degree. When a matter such as this comes before a court the spotty enforcement will be a problem for the employer.

Employers exploit these sorts of things all the time to their benefit, and I am sure Amazon has/will - but when a critical mass is reached they will find that the organizer they fired for talking unions on company time will win. This is part of the reason that it takes an extraordinary effort to unionize.

Distractions like discussing “freedom” or “accessibility”?

> I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize. I don't think its unreasonable to make people work when they're on the clock and remove distractions.

Amazon will basically work them until they have no free time except sleep then, preventing any worker solidarity or social bonds to form.

> Many are used to comfortable jobs where they can post memes on slack…

I feel like you’re trying to paint tech workers as a bunch of pampered pearl clutchers who have no experience with blue collar labor, but that completely ignores the fact that the Amazon factory workers - ie not cushy tech workers - started this effort to unionize because the working conditions are that bad. This shows that actually, no, an employer who won’t let you go to the restroom or even say the word “restroom” on their “chat app” is not normal, even for blue collar workers who you seem to think have no expectations of rights at all. This is not about posting “memes on slack.”

I agree with that but I think including "pay raise" is a step too far. Employees have the right to discuss pay, via the NRLA. That is not inherently politically loaded language despite Amazon trying to make it so.

It’s so stupid too. “Hey buddy what was you p4y ra1$e?”

Yeah you may be right. I don't know about the specifics or have any opinion about particular words. I just think work should be professional. It's not a family. It's a group of people that get together to get a job done.

There are enough words on the list to get at intent, and it would seem that maintaining professionalism isn’t the only intent of that list.

“Accessibility”, “fairness”, “harassment”, etc are all normal words to use within the context of professional discussion.

Yep, it's a lazy attempt at enforcing an Amazon Newspeak.

Coming soon: Amazon removes the SQL `Union` clause from all its products.

It's not even a "chat app". It's some "shout out" social network system.

Amazon FC employees already have access to Chime and there's no message filtering there. I've seen the "u word" dropped back and forth on it myself.

I don't know of any organization that filters chat apps to prevent socialization. I have heard of preventing people from browsing facebook and similar though. Forcing employees to be unsociable robots seems like it could backfire spectacularly and just cause more dissent, unhappiness, and further harm productivity.

> I don't think its unreasonable to make people work when they're on the clock and remove distractions.

I find that generally the kind of person who says such things is the kind of person who has a comfortable job where they can post memes on slack or comment on social media during the working day.

I would bet if you did a survey and asked whether you think it's appropriate to post spicy memes and organize against your employer on the company's time and systems you'd see a clear correlation with income levels. The lower the income the more bizarre they would consider that behavior

I bet if you did a survey and asked whether you think it's appropriate to critisize the political elite of the country in public, you'd see a clear correlation with income levels. In the lower income countries the more bizarre they would consider this behaviour.

Perhaps we should conclude that blind servitude is a bad idea and one should not allow onceself to be exploited.

I would guess it's the reverse, judging by /r/WorkReform.

It's tens of thousands of people who categorically refuse to understand what employers hire people for, in principle.

Some % of them does understand what a business is, why businesses hire people, and why and how our systems can be realistically reformed to improve conditions for all workers. But most people don't.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of them see the option of posting spicy memes and organizing against one's employer on company time as a fundamental human right.

> I would guess it's the reverse, judging by /r/WorkReform

You think /r/WorkReform is highly representative of an entire working class?

I do think it’s representative of a commonly-encountered sentiment, especially in the younger generation’s working class.

In the beginning of my career, I worked at a company that offered categorized internet filtering for workplaces. At its most reductive, it kept people from browsing porn at work. However, the behavior of the filtering engine was wholly customer configurable, and a lot of companies elected to not block...simply monitor. If anyone was logged doing anything they shouldn't they planned to fire them (we were asked about the accuracy once they chose to use it for firing and legal action).

When we asked our customers what this preference was about, it came down to that this "felt better" for employees and blocking felt too draconian.

> presumably meant for business. If people were openly talking about "slave labor" and "vaccine"

Should we also ban employees talking about 'unrelated to work' words like a 'tornado' and 'fire' so they they keep on working right untill they die, as has happened recently?

Also people here that hink you can't use employer's facilities and apps to organise -> organising is a legal right, where do you expect to be able to meet all your co-workers, randomly at the shopping mall? You are as deluded as people who think they have right to protest but government shouldn't own any land, and you have no right to protest on private land.

> If people were openly talking about [....] "vaccine" on any public company slack channels, I would think they'd shut it down at most organizations

"I am getting my covid vaccine so im going to be out of office this afternoon"

"Did anyone else go to [location X] to get the vaccine, how fast were they? Was there a big line?"

Were both things that appeared on my work slack when the covid vaccines came out, and seem totally reasonable to me.

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