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Comment by sparrc | Hacker News Reader

Seems like it's bordering on push-scooter levels of top speed and stability...what's the benefit of such a small bike compared to a scooter?

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I used a push scooter in Munich in combination with buses and trains. It was fine for short distances of like ~1.5km or less, going to/from transit stations, but past that distance it just gets fucking annoying. Standing up on a push scooter and constant pushing with your feet just isn't as comfortable as sitting down and pedaling.

Also, the non-inflated rubber wheels I had on the thing were very uncomfortable (and loud) on cobblestone-type roads. Almost infeasible to use, really. But otherwise it was a pretty convenient thing to have.

Fair enough, but from the looks of that bike it doesn't really look like it'd be comfortable much more than a few kilometers either.

There are push scooters with inflatable tires (I've seen them here in the US) but not sure how much that affects the weight and portability.

Regarding distances with Kwiggle please take a look here:

https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/faltrad-300km

Ok, 300km/d is not for all people, but it show the possibilies.

I had a push scooter, and they're very dangerous.

Wheels are small, board is short, and center of gravity is high. It just takes a small pothole covered with leaves (so, not even winter), and the driver will fly forward (I did).

E-scooters are heavier, with larger wheels and longer boards, so they may be less accident-prone, but I've never tried one.

A scooter has very bad stability. Your weight is centered, whereas a bike distributes force wider through each foot. Larger tires can handle most surfaces, while a tiny pebble, crack, or wandering ghost could flip a scooter rider into the nearest car or old lady.

Scooter has an even smaller wheel and is more unstable during high speed. Also bike is more muscle-efficient.

Overall it's questionable on muscle efficiency. The main problem with scooters/skateboards is that beginners don't learn using second leg (it feels unnatural and takes practice). Thus getting tired with pushing with one leg.

Another thing at this form factor you can get electric skateboard, muscles are concern.

I would switch between legs while using my push scooter, still not nearly as good as a bike.

Muscle usage between a bike and a scooter isn’t even close. The leg you’re pushing with isn’t the problem, it’s that you’re supporting your whole body weight on one bent leg while you’re pushing, and effectively doing a one legged half-squat every time you transition from coasting to pushing and back. Add in the additional rolling resistance from the tiny wheels and the lack of mechanical advantage from gearing and overall you have something that’s only modestly better than jogging except when you’re costing down hill.

My experience is only with using skateboards for long distance, though similar should apply for scooters, but haven't tried.

If I haven't rode both bicycle and skateboards for distance for a while, I'd have exact same thought as you. From my experience of casual rider, it's opposite - I can easily go for hours on skateboard, while on bicycle I get tired and uncomfortable. I've ridden same bike paths 10-20 miles on bicycle and skateboard, and for me skateboard is easier. My guess because on skateboard I can change body position and muscles involved, can switch legs, push or pump. While on bicycle I'm locked in the same position, using same muscles all the time.

Jogging is way way harder than skate, I can barely jog 5 miles, but on skateboard 5 miles i won't even sweat.

There're various types of longboards and indeed some are quite high and you end up doing one legged squat. There many low to the ground models designed for distance specifically, that are much more comfortable to push, no squatting. Check https://www.instagram.com/p/Cbah6FrJuUv/ or https://www.gbomblongboards.com/longboard-skateboard-gallery

Cycling is more efficient that skateboarding, but surprisingly by a small factor. 24h record for cycling is ~900km, while on skateboard ~500km.

The logical end of the scooter sequence is probably roller blades, and I do know people who use those to get around and consider them practical.

No hills where they live?

I have no idea whether this bike is any good.

However, the limit on how good a bike is are defined by materials and geometry together. With strong, tight and shock-absorbing enough materials, you could theoretically create a race-quality bike in a form-factor like this.

When or if such things will appear is hard to say. The Bike Friday seems to be at the quality of a decent road bike but foldable into a suitcase (they've had the same basic design for twenty years so twenty years of materials improvement might create a pretty extraordinary thing).

See: https://bikefriday.com/ (relative to other comments, slightly larger than Brompton but I think more of a bike that really can be your only bike).

I have a Bike Friday (and I even visited the factory in Eugene OR to pick it up, which was fun). There's a clear difference between it and a Brompton, slow-fold vs. quick, essentially. I have gone on great plane trips with my Friday, but it wouldn't be very practical for taking on public transit, and it doesn't fold up much without coming apart, and that takes tools and time.

Bike Friday are pretty popular in the Willamette Valley, I guess some local pride. My neighbors have a couple and taken them all over the world, I think they put something like 60K miles on them by now. They look pretty goofy but seem to do the job.

I can't see myself on one of these things but I never had a commute where it would be necessary, in a pinch maybe it's the lesser evil.

One benefit is the ability to sit.

I commit on an e scooter every day, 15 minutes each way, and its more comfortable to stand on it than sit on my bike saddle.

I think more people are familiar with riding bycicle and thus it maybe easier for them to go longer distance. But yeah scooter would be smaller and lighter,even electric powered ones. Longboard would be even lighter. It takes some practice to start, but for city commute it's quite good and can't beat the portability.

An electric scooter I'd expect to probably be heavier than a tiny portable bike like this, unless the range is really short.

Longboards I think still have serious usability/safety issues compared to scooters and especially bikes.

Completely right. No comments.

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