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Comment by caffeine | Hacker News Reader

Main thing is don’t expect too much. You will not experience that same feeling of comfortable camaraderie again for a long time.

Make an effort to listen to people. Keep your ego in check - avoid saying “Well at my old company we did …” - just listen to what people are doing here and now.

I would also say try to maximise informal 1-on-1 time with other people, ask them about their work, their opinions, etc. If you are in a larger group don’t opine, just listen. If you have questions, don’t interrupt the group - use it as an opportunity to go ask the relevant person after and build a 1-1 relationship.

Try to keep a smile on your face. Avoid dark humour or joke-complaining.

Edit: Say yes to everything, at least once, for the first year. Any time anyone invites you to a drink or a talk or a meeting, just say yes.

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> Try to keep a smile on your face. Avoid dark humour or joke-complaining.

Such good advice. At your old company you were a known quantity so if you made a dark joke or whatnot, you got a pass: "oh, Dan is just in a crabby mood today".

At a new company you don't have that store of social capital. You're building it day by day.

Just a quick counter to the “avoid saying well, at my old company we did this”. A lot of people hire externally to get this perspective, especially if it’s a team that hasn’t grown in a while, but if that’s the case they usually won’t be shy about telling you that. But don’t be attached to how you did things before just see if it opens up new ideas for everyone.

Yes definitely. I think especially if people ask it’s great to tell them as much as they ask for.

I personally did everything I advised not doing in that post, and learned the lessons, so I will just tell you my experience of it, and YMMV.

For me, the downside of telling the war stories was the opportunity cost - I could have spent that time listening, and as the new joiner the information and rapport is way more valuable than the status gained from telling the story and entertaining, impressing, or educating people.

The other downside is that people are eager to please a new joiner. They might sometimes say “Yeah we should do that here! Why don’t you be in charge of it!” But this is just to please you - you don’t actually know enough yet about what is happening in the new company to know if your way will bring value. Now you are busy spearheading a tangent that may have no value rather than continuing climbing the learning curve.

This is top notch advice

You just described self-censorship and groupthink. You also described certain aspects of workplace psychopathy (especially the psychopatic entry and assessment part).

Groupthink is when people, seeking validation from a group and to preserve harmony and cohesion, withhold their opinions causing the group to make suboptimal decisions.

If you think you will have to do this, don't join the company. Groupthink means the company doesn't foster psychological safety, which is the top predictor of team performance.

This is not only bad advice, it's probably unethical too. You are expected to work in the best interest of the company, and the company is expected to not punish people for speaking up about their ideas.

What you described works if you want to advance yourself at the expense of the company, but again, it is not ethical.

You are just exploiting information asymmetry, and anyone that likes doing that in a good faith organization should be let go. Highly political people are a waste of time.

you’re over thinking it. parent comment is rooted in respecting your coworkers, not being some subservient drone who doesn’t add anything to the conversation. coming in and saying “we did this at my last company” provides no room for learning why we do things this way here now, and serves to alienate you from your coworkers. there’s a long period of learning and listening that should be respected. you will have better quality input if you spend the time to understand why before adding anecdotes. it’s very good advice. of course speak up if you have something to add to the conversation, just be mindful of how you do so.

I’m sick of this black and white attitude being spread about how displaying any kind of thoughtfulness to your coworkers or your professional life is unhealthy for you.

Just listen to what they have to say and evaluate if it's a good idea. If it is not a good idea, it is not constructive, or not actionable, or if it is not a priority you can voice that opinion.

It is called critical thinking, collaboration and professionalism.

Isolating a new person for having a good idea is being unprofessional and passive aggressive. Using your numbers to psychologically abuse a person just for having a good idea sounds more like prison culture than a real engineering organization.

It also creates a culture of mediocrity which scares away talent, and a breeding ground for psychopathy.

Just do your job, which is to solve problems, not creating new ones. Focus on the problem to be solved.

When you are being paid by a company and acting on behalf of the company, wear the company employee hat instead of the roman politician wannabe hat.

"We hire smart people to tell us what to do" - Steve Jobs.

Your POV might ring true for Apple, for instance, but at 99% of American engineering jobs you kinda wanna just keep your head down and get good and not step on people's toes. Most jobs, even if they ought to be meritocracy based, are really just social games and if you come in guns blazing about how X, Y and Z are mediocre and can be improved, you're just stepping on toes and hurting feelings. It's human nature.

Let's all live in caves then. Let's not talk about how life outside caves is possible or better than living in a cave. Solving problems hurts people's feelings.

We should be happy living in caves and punish people that suggest anything better... until the tribe across the river with bronze weapons kills us.

> Just listen to what they have to say and evaluate if it's a good idea. If it is not a good idea, it is not constructive, or not actionable, or if it is not a priority you can voice that opinion.

yes. the key is to listen first. so it sounds like you’re in agreement with me and the GP, and everything else you said is because you want to be upset.

Maybe it is due to the way people interpret things differently, but none the assessments you are making in your two posts about the original comment are things that I would have said or thought about that comment.

The original comment was: use your charm to gain the trust of people, meet with each person, assess how they are useful to get your goals done.

Those are the textbook first steps of the workplace psychopath.

Then comes establishing a network of patrons and pawns, confronting your rivals and the psychopatic ascension, where useless patrons and pawns are forgotten or even eliminated.

That is your interpretation of the original comment, not even close to a direct quote (and I'm sure many would take it as a gross distortion of what was actually said).

Obviously you and I interpreted the original comment very differently.

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