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Comment by ShivShankaran | Hacker News Reader

Russia has 4 clear demands. Why not just give it to them? reject nato, recognize crimea, demilitarize.

Putin is a crazy genocidal maniac and war is worse than hell since innocents suffer. Why argue about the 4 points and prolong the war?

I never understood Zelensky and his obsession to remain in power as well as force all men of Ukraine to fight the war. The west is also glorifying the ukrainian excessively and resulted in thousands of volunteer fighters.

The west arming the far right in Ukraine has been repeated umpteen times and has never changed anything. Taliban, isis, syrian free army, libyan rebels, somalian rebels. Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?

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Ah yes, lay down your arms forever we won’t invade we promise.

Says the country that previously promised to never invade when Ukraine gave up its nukes and did it anyway.

The promises of the Russian government regarding the security of Ukraine are at best meaningless and at worst actively malicious.

The definition of insanity is letting Russia take over parts of whatever country they feel like, based off whatever deluded reasoning they spew. This needs to stop, best way to do that is to cripple the countries ability to fight wars.

I agree with you but would like to qualify one point:

> The definition of insanity is letting Russia take over parts of whatever country they feel like, based off whatever deluded reasoning they spew.

To be fair, Krim was actually almost completely Russian. So it’s not some random deluded reasoning, it’s basically the same reasoning that Hitler used to get Austria and the Sudetenland. You know, merge the Russian lands into the empire.

It was more a comment on the 'denazification' justification used to go after the rest of Ukraine.

But I would also argue that the ethnic makeup of a region doesn't really justify trying to annex it.

Aaaand.. lets dig up the history books, how did crimea become this way- and there it is, ethnic cleansing and replacement with russian civilians during the ruling of the ussr.

Thats how a lot of the baltic states in the regions got their russian minorities today. Deport the elite, import russians to life in their homes.

Hitlers crimes were rolled back, this crimes stayed and lingered and even worse, are the recipe for todays conquests. This is what ukraine can expect, if putin is victorious. Mass deportations and replacements.

It is also the "unoffical" reason why the "planted" people their need russia "for protection" against a "genocide". Every accusation a confession.

6 day old account that has only posted Russian talking points - hmmmm

Ukraine has only 1, totally reasonable demand—Russia needs to get the fuck out. Maybe they should get their one demand instead of Russia getting their 4.

This comment is the 'she dressed provocatively so she deserved it' of war justifications.

You should be ashamed.

Throughout its two terms, the Obama administration resisted providing overt lethal assistance to Ukraine, concerned that such a move by the U.S. would provoke Russian President Vladimir Putin. Even after Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea, President Barack Obama maintained that stance, though his administration did provide a range of other nonlethal military and intelligence assistance to Ukraine, including training. That posture shifted under President Donald Trump, and Washington began a relatively modest flow of weapons shipments. Trump’s attempt to cajole Ukraine into involving itself in his electoral battle with Joe Biden notwithstanding, U.S. military support for Kyiv has ticked steadily upward.

Even before Russia’s invasion, the Biden administration had begun a process of increasing lethal aid.

https://theintercept.com/2022/03/10/ukraine-russia-nato-weap...

It started in November 21, a month after a Russian mechanized division moved from Siberia to a new army field east of Ukraine. Any arms deal started after October 2021 was triggered by the Russians.

You have a very submissive attitude. Do you do the same when a thug threatens your family? Or when bullies at school ask for your lunch? You just give it to them? Sorry, but your comment is pathetic.

Ukraine is being egged on by US to fight a war it cannot win. They have a clear way out and it's gut wrenching that they want to continue fighting.

As for your anecdote if someone was stabbing me and wanted my wallet/bank/whatever, I will throw it in.

Stand on the graves of a million dead people and ask them if honor matters. Their silence will be your answer.

Your rhetoric is meaningless. Plenty of people have died for honor that would answer in the affirmative if not dead. That you have a blindspot to that sort of self sacrifice means nothing on behalf of the people fighting for Ukraine.

Most of them are being forced to fight since it's illegal for men to leave the country. Listen this is exactly the dixie chicks moment.

They got death threats, pulled off radio, cds burnt. Its impossible for me to explain anything rational over the din of rabid nationalistic flag waving and posturing to support this proxy war.

Zelensky 100% has the option to end the war. Just accept the terms and live another day to fight the bully

>Most of them are being forced to fight since it's illegal for men to leave the country. Listen this is exactly the dixie chicks moment.

illegal to leave country - yes. Forced to fight - no. You need to have a really good connections inside military in order to join military in combat role those days.

> Just accept the terms and live another day to fight the bully

Of course, when that “another day” comes you’ll again argue that they should lie down in the dirt and soil themselves.

You should study some history of the second World War and learn how appeasement went with Hitler.

Because a crazy genocidal maniac would invade again after Ukraine has demilitarized , and giving time also to reduce foreign economic dependencies.

Politicians as a general rule like to remain in power. You are confused about this?

Ukrainian conscription doesn't seem out of place. During WWII, Great Britain enforced full conscription on all male British subjects between 18 and 41 who were present on those islands (with exceptions). And the Germans never made it past the Channel Islands. Had they reached Dover, you seem to believe Churchill wouldn't have conscripted anyone able to handle a weapon??

> the definition of insanity

The one that was coined by a participant of an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting?

Would you have told the pilots of British Airways Flight 009 they were insane to try to restart the engines after failing so many times? Yet they continued, and saved the lives of everyone onboard.

Sounds like a worthless definition to me.

>Russia has 4 clear demands. Why not just give it to them?

Well apparently most Ukraninans would rather die then live their lives under Putin's boot or indeed together with Russians who think its OK to invade other countries and murder people who oppose them.

But I believe you when you express puzzlement, this confusion seem to run all the way to the boss.

Putin basically asks Ukraine if it would be so kind to disarm itself and make the invasion easy.

Ukraine has once signed demilitarization treaty. We can see how it went for them.

Next year Putin will be in western Ukraine. Then after that in Latvia or Poland. Where are we going to resist? At Berlin or Paris?

you are down voted like crazy, but i have to say i agree with you. ukraine can not win this war. no way. so why prolonge it for motnhs, years even? so many people will die .

but you cant say this nowadays or youre a kremlin spy. like you couldnt be critical of the covid vaxxes without being a conspiracu theorist...

>ukraine can not win this war. no way

I guess the Ukranians disagree!

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