Hacker News Reader

Comment by phaedrus | Hacker News Reader

This is interesting because I recently read of a theory that clinical depression is actually an altered state of consciousness, like dreaming or being under the influence of psychedelic drugs. It seems to explain a lot about depression as well as posing the question what other things might be an altered state of consciousness.

I predict if we're successful in creating general AI and/or artificial consciousness, we'll uncover a veritable zoo of different, altered states of consciousness much like how the standard model of particle physics revealed many more particles.

View on HN

I could say a lot more about this, but this would slip into what people would consider as woo.

So without treading there, I am just going to say, I think this field-effect of neurons will lead to discoveries about field-effect of all cells, not just neurons; that consciousness is not exclusive to neurons; and how acupuncture (at a mechanical level) might work.

I completely agree with you

Do you have any sources to recommend if I wanted to learn more about this thought?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29223641

There is quite a good deal of literature out there suggesting that acupuncture operates via electricity, FWIW.

Can you provide any references to said literature?

Huberman talks about acupuncture in this episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmhsWAqP_0Y&t=4647s

I don't recall specific literature, but that might provide some names or searches to make.

Electric potential across other cells and also single-cell organisms is well known and not new.

This is new though (and revolutionary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheAMrS8Q1c

Regarding consciousness, I don't get why people who submit to consciousness being everywhere in the universe have problem with simply calling it the universe. It seems to make discussions much more productive.

As someone who slipped into depression ~15 years ago and has had limited success pulling out of it, I would definitely consider it to be an altered state of consciousness. I remember what I used to be like before, and how I used to behave, and the relationships people seemed to want to have with me. Even recently, I was able to experience a glimpse of that former life when I got a job and was able to hold it for a few months. I think it definitely is an altered state, and it frustrates me to the verge of (re?)insanity that you can buy alcohol everywhere, but can't get generic SSRIs over the counter. At the moment in the US, you can't get an SSRI prescription without going to a doctor every 6 months to let them look at you for 30 seconds, mispronounce your name, and then declare you ready to continue taking their medicine. And that's if you have insurance. The US medical system is too paternalistic, imo.

People don't need more drugs to counter depression,

people need a better life so they don't get depressed in the first place.

"but we can't change their lives, so it's better for them to take antidepressants".

No! Nonsense!

People are depressed, because their lives suck for whatever reasons.

When they take antidepressants their lives still suck, but - like a slave! - they just learn to accept it as it is.

When you take a painkiller against pain, the pain and its source don't magically vanish. It's all still there, you just mask it out.

Are you feeling sad? Just take SOMA!

I feel this is an overly simplistic view of depression.

I imagine there's a thousand reasons for a state like depression to emerge — some, but not all of them external. I think the Venn diagram of people with depression and people whose "lives suck for whatever reason" is not a single circle.

> People need a better life so they don't get depressed in the first place.

You know, I think I actually agree with you on that point, despite the rest of your post. I won't address the rest of what you said, because it'd just get nasty.

The problem, in my opinion, can be described by Maslow's hierarchy of needs. In the US (probably elsewhere too, just speaking for myself), the layer below physiological needs, like clean air, shelter, clothing, etc, is: "Get a job." Without that, you're dead.

Your comment immediately reminded me of Marvin the paranoid android from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

That always bothered me. He wasn't paranoid, he was depressed.

Depressed by design.

All thoughts are altered states of consciousness. A collection of self reinforcing thoughts that represent an instance of depression are a state of consciousness in the same way that experiencing sun on your skin is a state of consciousness. All is qualia and we move between states of qualia like fish through an ocean.

An ocean with large pockets of powerful currents that are very hard to swim against, to stay in the image. Yes, everything is qualia/sensation/thought, and I get the appeal of the concept of "OMG, by me writing this and you reading it I just literally changed your brain!". But not every state of our brain/consciousness is the same, not every state allows for the same movement of the fish.

There's a higher-level interpretation of what the term "state of consciousness" means to many people. Not a "state of the brain, like a state of a cellular automaton" but instead a section in the incredibly high-dimensional space of possible brain states that greatly facilitates going to other interesting positions, i.e. thoughts or experiences.

I would certainly hope that an AI would be void of emotions, which I consider to be a relic of our primitive past.

Well, it's not really a relic since it's actually the driving force behind our daily lives and society as a whole, sadly. They do more harm than good in a modern society with billions of individuals.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com