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Comment by rexreed | Hacker News Reader

No economy. No infrastructure. No housing. Little of value except a concept, a minimum viable product, and something to sell to investors. This is something that can part people with their "investment" dollars. In many ways analogous to so many venture "investments" without any of the potential exit strategies, except by boat. This particular investment has a literal chance of being under water for the investors. Very telling that at the end of the piece, the folks who sold the investment said they don't know where to take things next because they hadn't thought farther than buying the island and getting investors. This is quite the analogy for tech startup investing in many ways.

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With enough cooperation from the Government of Belize, this could turn into great marketing for an independently-run "Special Economic Zone", or "charter city". It's a very risky endeavor as you point out, but not without potential.

The island is only 1.5 acres though. The size is too small to build any significant infrastructure. The island could maybe fit 100 people on it comfortably. I cannot find any reason that someone would want to visit this place for longer than a few hours.

100 people is about 5m² per person. That's already a crowd. The island is smaller than Times Square. It's 100 times smaller than Vatican City, it's in fact a fifth the size of St Peter's square.

49 m² per person, enough for a small house, not 5. If you build a skyscraper (or, more ambitiously, underground) you could have luxury space for hundreds of people. Energy would be a problem, but not as much of a problem as the Belizean government.

    $ units
    Currency exchange rates from FloatRates (USD base) on 2019-05-31 
    3460 units, 109 prefixes, 109 nonlinear units

    You have: 1.2 acres
    You want: 
            Definition: 4856.2277 m^2
    You have: 1.2 acres/100 people
    You want: 
            Definition: 48.562277 m^2

Coming soon: Caribbean Walled City

Less useful in the era of high explosive artillery shells, much less high-altitude bombers, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and precision-guided munitions.

I think this has nothing to do with defence and everything to do with Kowloon Walled City that was sort of a no law enclave where everything was built very high and shoulder to shoulder to maximize floor space.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City

Oh, I was just thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walled_city, which describes nearly all cities for the past ten thousand years, though less so for the last 5% of that time.

Isn't it 60m2 per person?

How about to set up a bank account and mailing address?

I'm a big fan of charter cities/SEZs and new city/country projects but I'm more skeptical this is a practical avenue for making money. There are plenty of established jurisdictions to do this (e.g. basically all the former British colonies, a few American states) and the 'infrastructure' of lawyers, accountants, etc. who know how to deal with it are already established. This is the same reason I don't get why people are bullish on e-Residency for Honduras, Liberland, etc. What's the real value prop of incorporating an entity in these places?

With CRS/FATCA infecting almost every country, then that might be the reason?

Belize has already let Carnival dredge and basically create their own. Including their own port now too I think?

> No economy. No infrastructure. No housing. Little of value except a concept

Coastline could be the answer to all of those. Ships are housing and have their own self-contained infrastructure. Fishing and transport are a few major economic activities of significant value. With motivation, time, and a bit of capital, this could turn into something. I just wouldn't bet on it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@17.5746578,-88.1629002,16z

From a quick glance, it appears to be inside the outermost barrier islands of Belize. Consequently, I believe UNCLOS would typically mark their EEZ equidistant from the nearest Belize coastlines (either mainland or island). Which is to say: small.

And that's even assuming they overcame the insurmountable challenge of becoming a recognized party to the convention.

Everyone wants to be a sovereign island nation, but no one wants to sit through 20+ years of UN proceedings to make it happen.

You don't need UN recognition, you just need a host state to cede legal jurisdiction.

That's not true. Look at sealand. No one recognizes it as outside the uk except the uk

The UK doesn't recognize Sealand as independent as far I know.

Apparently the UK doesn't. I was under the impression that the owners had won some court case in the UK and ended up a strange quasiterritory.

Does that automatically cascade to maritime claims? I was trying to figure out what right is actually used for deciding whose coast a given coast is, for international treaty purposes.

I'm not sure, but not sure why it matters either. Any country can cede or sell territory to someone else. The UN or maritime law doesn't play into it.

Maybe I'm missing the context where the island would need be recognized as independent by anyone besides Belize

The comment I was replying to was discussing the economic possibilities inherent in having a coastline. A large number of which are governed by actual, taxable control of the waters in question. Which in turn is defined by international treaties (and local power acceptance of same).

Anyone can call themselves a nation, but being one requires an economy based on something. And presumably agriculture isn't an option with 1.5 acres of sandy soil.

I still don't see how international recognition impacts any of this. For example, the tax status of someone in Hawaii doesn't depend on what the UN or China says about it. It only depends the ability to enforce the taxes locally.

As I understand it, the most likely economic purpose of this island would be a tax haven.

This only depends on people using the haven willing to pay for it, and Belize agreeing that they will not try to tax it.

> Coastline could be the answer to all of those. Ships are housing and have their own self-contained infrastructure. Fishing and transport are a few major economic activities of significant value.

You're going to be hard pressed to construct an economy around any of those without an international agreement defining you as the sovereign entity.

Otherwise, why would I, the captain of a Mexican ship, pay taxes to Coffee Caye?

Because Belize tells me to? Well, then we've just found out who has sovereignty.

>why would I, the captain of a Mexican ship, pay taxes to Coffee Caye?

Like any country, You wouldn't unless they have a gunboats to stop you. Hell, most countries around the world can't keep Chinese fleets from exploiting their EEZ.

I'm saying that coffee Caye could make its money by signing citizenship papers and renting some yacht slips and moorings. You don't need a navy or recognition to do that.

S If someone doesn't pay taxes, you don't renew citizenship. Someone doesn't pay dock fees, you cut their power.

You don't need UN recognition to turn off someone's power, and the UN isn't going to send peacekeepers to prevent eviction.

More importantly they need connections to the US government. If you want true sovereignty in the Monroe doctrine sphere of influence, then you better have friends in Washington.

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