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Comment by Tainnor | Hacker News Reader

The Iraq war was wrong and stupid, it should never have happened. But that's just whataboutism. It doesn't make the Ukraine war or Russian disinformation any better to point out that the United States have messed up spectacularly more than just once.

One difference, though, is that GWB never put anyone in prison for talking about the Iraq "war" or about how much the US government lied about WMD.

> Is it because NATO is the "good" guy and Russia is the "bad" guy?

I don't know that NATO is the "good" guy, but Ukraine is in this story (and they're not part of NATO). I'm saddened that it took about 2 days of everybody being in shock about the war until all the Russia apologists started re-emerging. One nation is brutally attacking another sovereign nation in complete violation of all international law and at the same time threatening the world with nuclear war. To me it's clear who the "bad" guy is.

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The central point is that you need access to information to determine if a war is wrong and stupid. It is clear how censorship and propaganda can alter perception of who is the the good or bad guy.

And what happens when you can't tell what "information" is true in any reasonable timeframe, making it impossible for normal people (or actually anyone at all) to discern fact from fiction? Tough titty, those people just get to believe misinformation? It's not anyone's responsibility to suppress lies? I will never agree with that position. In a better world, the truth can be identified just by reading carefully. This isn't that world.

Who’s who to decide what’s True and what’s False? No one should be in that position of power, only you. You want to be taken care of, but your caregivers are wolves in disguise. Power breeds parasites. Long live anarchy

>And what happens when you can't tell what "information" is true in any reasonable timeframe, making it impossible for normal people (or actually anyone at all) to discern fact from fiction

My sweet summer child...

We crossed that line a long time ago. Everything is already lies and half truths.

Giving one group a monopoly on “truth“ doesn't help.

Every president the US has had have no problem standing in front of the country and telling bold-faced lies

The only way to get any semblance of truth is to pick through the the misinformation from multiple sides.

Having an official narrative and disallowing alternatives only prevents this process

Giving up completely doesn't help either, my sweet summer child. Pretending we can just let anyone say anything unchecked isn't actually a solution, it's a dodge because you don't want to have to trust. There's no way around having trust.

>There's no way around having trust.

Yes there is. The alternative is open information and critical evaluation. This isn't giving up.

I consider trusting censors to decide what information can be consumed to be giving up. Blindly thinking whatever you are told is the truth.

Who do you trust to limit the information you consume?

If a war is just a TV news about no-one-really-cares part of Europe it's easy to treat it as another topic for debate and partisan discussion about USA. Because from my perspective this is main shift of the discussion - Russia, Ukraine, other bordering countries and their complicated history - they are being pushed away to discuss USA politics.

I see refugees every day, on train station and in line near passport office, and I know how Russia influences politics of my country for years, and well, not for the better. I'm also not the biggest fan of USA, but it's really weird seeing how the whole story about Russia influence becomes basically "USA was worst".

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