Hacker News Reader

Comment by DiffEq | Hacker News Reader

I don't mean to be callous by this comment but if you mean "live differently" as living unhealthy well I have a problem with this. People that live in unhealthy ways cause all sorts of grief to others as well as financial loss. It is not right that I have to pay for people that decide to essentially eat themselves to death; it is not right that my wife and I had to care for my mother for months because she decided to eat herself to death. Heart disease and diabetes are all too common "paid" for by others - they should choose differently and while we can't make them choose differently we should for sure tell them that their choices are not "o.k.".

View on HN

There are a whole host of heart diseases not spurred on by unhealthy living. Particularly diseases affecting younger folk who would inordinately benefit from a longer lifespan if we got better at transplanting.

As a selfish example, I have ARVC. I was diagnosed at 24 while training for my first marathon. Lifestyle treatments for my disease are to explicitly avoid exercise as it exacerbates the deterioration of my heart muscle. As I age, I expect to be at a much greater risk for the heart diseases that you would recommend "healthy living" for, as I will be categorically barred from one of the most important pillars of that, exercise.

I realize we're talking about the margins here, but as a margin, I would love more advancement in transplants.

Living is unhealthy. It’s universally fatal. In a free society we (should) retain autonomy over our bodies. This isn’t purely philosophical, it is practical. Who decides what is healthy? What if they are wrong?

How many eggs should I eat today to meet your personal definition of healthy living? And what do I do when it differs from someone else?

This is kinda an extremist straw man, though. I don't think anyone is claiming that the fields of nutrition and physical fitness are settled and that we know everything about what people need to do to be healthy.

But if you're obese and eat junk food all day, or if you just sit around on your couch and never get any exercise, and then end up with (for example) heart disease, that is something that was likely preventable, and we have a pretty good idea why and what could have been done differently. I'm force to subsidize these people's health care to some extent, and I think that's unfair.

The whole autonomy thing is tricky. We live in a society where we "care" for each other in collective ways (taxes etc.). People who want to live in that society lose some autonomy as a part of the bargain. I don't think this means we should legally force people not to eat or drink certain things. But I do think that (for example) denying people liver transplants when they won't stop drinking excess amounts of alcohol is fine. They can have their autonomy, but then they have to live with the consequences of their choices.

> Living is unhealthy.

Tips fedora.

In all seriousness, I think there's obvious medical definitions for unhealthy in regards to addictions, weight, etc. Let's not philosophize some libertarian defense of something that obviously restricts and constricts one's freedom -- the ability to move an inch without your joints buckling.

I can sympathise with you if you have suffered from anti-fat bullying and adopt defensive attitudes in reaction -- but what the hell am I reading.

I agree - people need to be able to be called out when they are making bad decisions - especially w/regards to their health, and they especially should be called out by their health care providers - many doctors these days won't even broach the subject of a patient's weight, for fear of offending them - and I have seen patients file formal complaints against doctors when the doctor notes in their chart that the patient 'is obese'. It is right to tell them they are obese and it is right to encourage people to live healthier - how can you be a health care provider and not be allowed to call out people who are eating themselves to death?

Welcome to being an adult. People will do all sorts of things you think are not "OK", including people you're attached to. If you have kids, they will, too.

How we choose to deal with watching people do things we think they shouldn't is a matter of character.

I will say that I try hard to listen to people's criticism with an open mind, but people who badger me when they know I have considered their position, well, we tend to spend progressively less time together the more it happens. There's a difference between sharing information and punishing people for not complying, and I see no reason to accept punishment for something I don't intend to change about myself. A second-best fix for the problem, but better for everyone concerned.

It's only one self that can determine if one self is in balance or not. Just like we can lie to ourselves telling "everything is alright" while in truth it's not really the case.

But yes, as adults we can determine for ourselves. But it's a poor character trait not to be responsible for how you feel.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com