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Comment by nicoburns | Hacker News Reader

> you need to be either a very fast learner across a lot of subjects, while spending your own money, or hire some consultants who know what they are doing. I used to work for a product development consultancy, but it's a pretty niche market.

Would it possible to learn this stuff by getting a job in one of these consultancies somehow? And if so, how might one go about doing this?

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It's also possible (and possibly faster!!!) to learn by trying to bring a product to market yourself. There are many small engineering consultancies around the US; getting a job there is like getting a job anywhere but they seem to be disappearing. I worked for one for five years then moved on as it was clear that I didn't have a growth path there.

Here's one of the better-known ones in my area: https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-pd/

Usual process of "find them and ask for a job, or work your contacts", I suppose. I know that's not terribly helpful.

I have remembered about Bunnie Huang though, who wrote a book on the subject: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/the-essential-gui...

He blogged extensively about the "chumby" product he did about a decade ago, and the "precursor" he's working on at the moment. https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=6

I work for exactly one of these product development consultancies / contract engineering firms - we are a team of ~10 EEs and SWEs who work with customers from idea to design to development and then manufacturing. To the point of "lots of subjects", the above includes but is not limited to: sales, project management, electronic schematic capture and PCB layout, design for and manufacturing support, web development, and mechanical/system integration. Often we'll collaborate with our mechanical engineering counterparts who've opened their own product development and contract engineering consultancy.

I can't speak for all firms but the way we find our employees is through networks of current employees and through LinkedIn recruiting. You'll want to emphasize aspects of your resume/work that mark you as a self-starting generalist with key skills.

An example on the generalist side: we had a candidate say, "I don't want to do design, I just want to be handed a schematic and do PCB layout." They were passed over in favor of another candidate willing to dive in and do schematic capture if necessary, PCB layout, and speak directly to customers about requirements, timelines, budgets, and other project planning logistics.

An example on the key skills side: the weakness of generalists is of course lack of depth, and we'll often contract out to SMEs based on project needs. If you know of a product consultancy near you that's, say, mechanically-focused, you can offer e.g. SWE expertise on, for example, frontend/backend development for a site that accepts RESTful HTTP requests from the IoT device they're building a mechanical enclosure for, whose customer needs software expertise that the MEs don't have.

To find these companies, useful search phrases are things like "product development", "contract engineering", "engineering consultancy" and so on.

You found a PCB layout designer, not a design engineer. A good one is a real force multiplier that can lay out boards faster and more professionally than pretty much any EE I've worked with that lays out his own boards. You might not have enough work to keep one busy, though, and plainly that wasn't what you were looking for.

I agree with all your individual points but I’m slow in understanding your overall message, sorry.

It's a worthwhile specialization, but I have no idea how broken your recruiting pipeline would have to be to consider a layout designer for a "EE generalist who lays out his own circuit boards" sort of position. The typical layout designer does not have a BSEE or a resume that would indicate proficiency at circuit design - let alone project and customer management skills - it has historically tended to be a technician or draftsman level career path.

This was indeed an interview for a tech position. I was exaggerating about the design aspect so I’ll retract that. We do however have techs who interface with customers and who coordinate projects. From your responses I’d guess this is very unusual and thus my experience is a bit of an outlier. Maybe you could give the original asker better advice, I think anyone reading would benefit if you did.

I thought your advice to look for contract gigs was pretty good. I'd only add that I worked in that space for a while and consultancies are generally either desperate for work or desperate for help. If they're desperate for help they will be busy enough you will have to call and call to get them to talk to you, but if they don't completely shut you down, keep trying.

Or go work for a company that makes products. You will learn a whole lot of things about bringing a product to production that you will not learn at pretty much any product development consultancy.

Note that right now in 2022 just about everyone is desperate for help. Be sure you like doing parts substitutions.

I've hired layout shops where we worked with the designer more or less directly but at "whole product" design shops, if they even have a layout designer, in my limited experience it's not usually a customer facing position.

I have a couple of friends who work here https://www.synapse.com/careers

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