Comment by scrollaway | Hacker News Reader

Comment by scrollaway | Hacker News Reader

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I know regular Russians don't want to kill their Ukrainian brothers. Come on. Most people in Europe know that (and the people blaming Russians directly are the same racist fucks picking fights with any random brown-skinned dude for "being al'qaeda").

But yes, some of what you're saying is indeed propaganda. This war is unjustified and unjustifiable. I would invite you to watch this video by a Belarusian lieutenant colonel, it's relevant: https://twitter.com/kopiganja/status/1498182268523016195

Now, I want to be clear: That Russian soldiers are disobeying, failing or retreating does not mean this is not a genocidal war. The objective is genocidal, but the objective is stupid enough that the smarter Russian soldiers aren't following it.

> What we really want is no NATO bases everywhere near our border and now looks like the only way (idk, maybe there were others, but Putin decided so) to do it is to destroy ukrainian state completely (the state, not the people).

Okay, well, that's very different from "wanting to eliminate nazis", isn't it? And yes, I know Putin doesn't want NATO on russian borders, but like you said, "maybe there were other [ways]", and choosing the bloodiest one is fucking psychopathic.

Furthermore, I want to remind you that to "destroy the Ukrainian state completely" is still genocidal when Ukrainians DONT WANT YOU TO DO THAT and are rightfully taking up arms to defend themselves.

It is their right to defend themselves from a bully. And if the bully insists, you can't then say "oh well guess I'll have to kill everybody who doesn't want me to absorb their entire culture and identity" without being called genocidal.

Finally, please take a look beyond your own sources when looking at war footage. Here's example drone footage of destroyed civilian structures in Kyiv. https://twitter.com/avalaina/status/1499467690842415109

> I would invite you to watch this video by a Belarusian lieutenant colonel, it's relevant: https://twitter.com/kopiganja/status/1498182268523016195

Watched the video. Sorry, I don't think this is relevant - this is obvious propaganda from the other side of war. I found this man's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/CSSmN0uo0ir/. Looks like he has business in Poland, so I think he's kinda biased - if Belarus will be under sanctions, he may have problems. Also, the video quality is spectacular, it is really made by a professional, not just "his message to soldiers".

> the objective is stupid enough that the smarter Russian soldiers aren't following it

this is exactly what Nazis printed on leaflets and dropped from the planes during the WW2. see https://www.rbth.com/history/327798-nazi-propaganda-soviet-u... It is fun that both Zelensky and Putin are comparing each others with Hitler.

Jokes aside, the objective is not stupid, the explanation is. But I think explaining the objective as a "denazification" is not more stupid than explaining similar objective as "establishing a democracy". This is what politicians do.

>I want to remind you that to "destroy the Ukrainian state completely" is still genocidal when Ukrainians DONT WANT YOU TO DO THAT and are rightfully taking up arms to defend themselves. >It is their right to defend themselves from a bully. And if the bully insists, you can't then say "oh well guess I'll have to kill everybody who doesn't want me to absorb their entire culture and identity" without being called genocidal.

I understand what you're saying and you're right in a way. But you must understand too: the opposite was done by Ukrainian government to the people of Donbass for eight years, even though western media completely ignored it. Google "defence of donetsk airport" and something related. And even though there were declaration of piece (so called Minsk agreements), ukrainian army continued the war calling it "anti-terrorist operation". Don't you see the similarity of the situation? The difference is that ukrainians bombed their own people and russians are bombing ukrainians, but I don't see how's that better.

I personally know a couple of people from Donbass who left their homes and moved to Russia to escape this war. And believe me, they're not stupid and they understand who's guilty in it.

>Finally, please take a look beyond your own sources when looking at war footage. Here's example drone footage of destroyed civilian structures in Kyiv.

I sure do. I don't believe in "precise strikes" nonsense told by our officials - right now it is a bloody mess for sure. But you must understand too: a lot of defensive strikes made by Azov and AFU are made from civilian structures. That's what army do - because they expect that enemy will not fight back and if it does - they just will have one more "shocking" video for the media. This is war shit.

>who doesn't want me to absorb their entire culture and identity

This is also not the objective at all. We don't want to absorb the culture - there are lot of different cultures in Russia. The chechens, fighting by our side in this war is far more different from russians than ukrainians, believe me. We want different government to Ukraine, the government that will agree to admit Crimea as a Russia and DPR and LPR states and not join NATO neither de jure nor de facto. I hope that this is the real objective of Putin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxL5E7-Nejc

you again dumped a pile of steaming Russian propaganda in order to rationalize genocide. It is somehow got lost on the Russians in Russia that genocide can't be rationalized. If history is any guide, such loss (or at least suppression) of humanity will lead to catastrophic consequences to Russia and its people.

>ukrainian army continued the war calling it "anti-terrorist operation". Don't you see the similarity of the situation?

absolutely not. The similarity would be if Ukraine moved tanks on Moscow and bombed the sh^t out of Russia. They didn't even though their side also got shelled by the separatists.

> But you must understand too: a lot of defensive strikes made by Azov and AFU are made from civilian structures.

yea. Defenders of Stalingrad were guilty of the destruction of Stalingrad. That is Nazi logic. And it isn't the only time your post displayed it (which is naturally because Russian propaganda what you repeat is mostly nazism these days). Like this too :

>We want different government to Ukraine, the government that will agree to admit Crimea as a Russia and DPR and LPR states and not join NATO neither de jure nor de facto.

Just like Nazi wanted in their days - the USSR government without Bolsheviks and Jews which would suit more the vision of Great Germany the same way like Putin today wants to change Ukraine for his vision of Great Russia. Details change while the core nature of nazism stays the same.

>We don't want to absorb the culture

just drive millions of people out of their land, and the rest either killed for resistance or must accept the Russian Order as Putin declared. Just like Nazi planned for Slavic people in USSR.

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